Fundamentals of combat

[Jake Norwood]

How about making Buying Initiative more risky for the buyer?
Or you could make it a maneuver(Buy Initiative and strike), where you'll allot dice to hit before the opponent and then allot dice to the attack itself. All during one exchange. The first roll would be against the original attacker's attack, with a TN equal to the opponents Ref for the buyer, and the ATN for the original attacker. Something like that.


On a side note, does the reach modifier apply for ref contests? I house ruled that they did, since a dagger guy will have a hard time buying initiative from a spear man at "spear range".

Joachim-

I think you're on to something. Lets discuss this more. As for the dagger bit...makes great sense to me.

[Overdrive]

I think that, while you're on to something, you still aren't reading the rules.

Oh well, seems you're right (again :-)

You can only increase an opponent's TN by a number of dice equal to your Wit.

This was the part I was missing, but it still doesn't change the fact that with a lot of dice it's almost automatic to get the initiative.. I also was unaware of this one: (does it say so in the book?)

Can the other guy buy initiative now...sure he can, because now he's the slower one. That's where things get messy.

Yep. So... the "normal" first-exchange attack will be with only so many dice. You just have to leave some reserve to steal the initiative back should the opponent manage to steal it in the first place. During the second exchange it really doesn't matter, because the opponent probably hasn't got enough dice to try stealing. I think this sounds pretty good, it should discourage from going full-offensive (knowing that the enemy can indeed strike first, probably dismembering you). Of course, having armor changes things, even considerably, but that's another story.

To me, having the initiative was like "I now have the option to die horribly!" Now it has more advantageous sound.. "If I play my cards right, I can attack pretty safely." Thanks, Jake :)

But there is one more thing lurking around. Maneuvers like Bind&Strike and Toss count as attacks, but don't do any damage. If someone did one of these on me, I would just declare "thrust to the head, all remaining dice" as my defence! Sure, I lose some because of the maneuver, effective immediately, but I should still have some left for mangling the attacker. Am I correct, or are these maneuvers only for special situations (opponent has few dice left, attacker is very well armored, etc)?

As you can see, I'm one of those sad rules-lawyers desperately needing official rulings, who don't settle for Seneschal's decisions (given that I'm the Seneschal... well.. :/ ) TROS is just about perfect with its chaotic-yet-orderly combat system, there are only these few details that bother me..

What tactics would you use when dueling with longsword and no armor with an equal (skill and equipment-wise) opponent? Please, comments anyone.

Thanks,
Antti

[Mokkurkalfe]

Joachim-

I think you're on to something. Lets discuss this more. As for the dagger bit...makes great sense to me.

Sure.
What bugs me a little is that it relies only on Reflex. I liked it when the importance was spread out between the attributes a little. That's something I'd like to see in tFoB. It should be possible to exploit any weakness, including as many attributes as possible.
This way however, you can protect yourself from the maneuver using more dice, making it tougher for the buyer to get through.
The Ref bonus for thrusting would have to implemented somewhere, though I'm not sure how.
All of this could be made even more simple if you make it work like a Simultaneous Evation/Strike, where rules are concerned.

Hmmm, this combat system will sooner or later turn into a complex weave of maneuvers, counter-maneuvers and counter-counter-maneuvers... Or perhaps it already has(not necessarily a bad thing). It certainly makes *my* head spin if I think too much about it.

[Lance D. Allen]

Toss is definitely not a maneuver you'll want to use often, no, unless whatever it is you're tossing can do injury. Normally I wouldn't even attempt to use it unless the opponent had a small dicepool, or was at enough of a range that attacking would put them at a disadvantage.. OR on the very first exchange after a new initiative. That is about one time that you can be sure that your opponent won't just opt out and try to nail you, unless they're willing to buy initiative to do so.

Bind and strike is a dangerous maneuver, but quite effective if you can pull it off. Instance 1: if you bind their sword, they're NOT hitting you with it, period. If it's a shieldman, binding their shield is risky (I know, I've done it) but it opens them up wider than a snail without a shell if successful. A shieldman without the use of his shield is a dead man.

So... yeah. They're not maneuvers you should try to use in every situation, but when used properly, they're very effective.