A little advice please

[Wulf]

Hi all.

I've been considering using CAH for a Science Fiction setting (as some may have noticed over on RPGnet...). The effect I'm after is something like a cartoon version of Farscape or Andromeda (or even LEXX if the players go wild...). The universe will be based on the old Star Frontiers game, which has some excellent aliens. I'm hitting two problems.

Firstly, CAH doesn't seem to have much scope for space combat, except in the most abstract. Has anyone thought about this? I've considered ways to make space combat unworkable in this universe, but they tend to sound too realistic... I'm still working on this one, so the solution may be simple.

Secondly, making attacks dangerous is expensive in CP. A weapon that will knock a normal man down in one shot seems to cost over 20 CP - and that's using the "Double Damage against Flesh" modifier.
Medium Power
Medium Range
10+ damage
Double damage against flesh
Item
Minor Limit on ammo
Minor inconvenience (doesn't work under water)

Anyone care to voice an opinion on these?

Wulf

[Eddy Fate]

Hi all.

Hi Wulf!

I've been considering using CAH for a Science Fiction setting (as some may have noticed over on RPGnet...).

I didn't see that - which thread is it?

The effect I'm after is something like a cartoon version of Farscape or Andromeda (or even LEXX if the players go wild...). The universe will be based on the old Star Frontiers game, which has some excellent aliens.

Very cool!  Sound exciting!

I'm hitting two problems.

Firstly, CAH doesn't seem to have much scope for space combat, except in the most abstract. Has anyone thought about this?

Actually, I haven't even considered it.  Cindi might have (she's always thinking).  At first thought, it seems some variation of the vehicle rules might work...

I've considered ways to make space combat unworkable in this universe, but they tend to sound too realistic... I'm still working on this one, so the solution may be simple.

I think you mean "workable".  If you come up with any ideas, let us know!  I would base a lot of it off of the Piloting Trait (or maybe make up a Starfighter trait) and mod the vehicle rules, but I'd have to look at my notes and think on it some more.

Secondly, making attacks dangerous is expensive in CP. A weapon that will knock a normal man down in one shot seems to cost over 20 CP - and that's using the "Double Damage against Flesh" modifier.
Medium Power
Medium Range
10+ damage
Double damage against flesh
Item
Minor Limit on ammo
Minor inconvenience (doesn't work under water)

Anyone care to voice an opinion on these?

Largely, that's intentional.  If you want to mow through hordes of characters, use the Goon Factor rules.  The "straight" combat rules are usually used against stock villains that show up from week to week, so you really don't want to blow through them on one shot.  An exception that comes to mind is Megatron slaughtering Autobots in the shuttle to Earth in the first few minutes of Transformers: The Movie, but that would be A) under the "Movie" rules, and B) Megs would probably be a 200-250 (or higher!) CP character in CAH terms.

If you want the cartoon logic of "people fall down a lot, but don't die", slap a Misc. Major Effect (what will be called a Major Advantage in the new edition) of "If target takes 10 or more Hurt Points of damage from one attack, target must make a Body check at DN 12 to remain conscious".  Voila, instant "stun gun".

Does that help, or are you thinking of something else?

[Wulf]

Hmm... not sure I can reply to one of these multi-level quoted messages without getting either messy or incomprehensible...

Hi all.

Hi Wulf!

Hello (OK so far?)

I've been considering using CAH for a Science Fiction setting (as some may have noticed over on RPGnet...).

I didn't see that - which thread is it?

"Find me a SF game!" or something like that. It quickly changed into Cynthia's CAH advert space :-)

The effect I'm after is something like a cartoon version of Farscape or Andromeda (or even LEXX if the players go wild...). The universe will be based on the old Star Frontiers game, which has some excellent aliens.

Very cool!  Sound exciting!

Thanks... if it works! The basic background will be all the intelligent species driven to the periphery of the galaxy by some big bad race, but they haven't seen the big bad in about 500 years, so they're going searching for the old worlds, colonies, peoples and technology. Hopefully I can make the 'Lost technology' idea work better than Battletech did (wouldn't be hard...).

I'm hitting two problems.
Firstly, CAH doesn't seem to have much scope for space combat, except in the most abstract. Has anyone thought about this?

I've considered ways to make space combat unworkable in this universe, but they tend to sound too realistic... I'm still working on this one, so the solution may be simple.

I think you mean "workable".

No, UNworkable. As in...
PLAYER: Why are there no rules for space combat?"
ME: "Because the technology of this universe makes it impossible. Here's why (begin lecture on Stutterwarp Drives, quantum tunnelling, frequency matching algorithms, and various other buzzwords)"
PLAYER: "...oh..."

I could do this, but I LIKE space combat! I took a day off school to go see the original Star Wars the day it opened in Scotland!

  If you come up with any ideas, let us know!  I would base a lot of it off of the Piloting Trait (or maybe make up a Starfighter trait) and mod the vehicle rules, but I'd have to look at my notes and think on it some more.

Secondly, making attacks dangerous is expensive in CP.

If you want the cartoon logic of "people fall down a lot, but don't die", slap a Misc. Major Effect (what will be called a Major Advantage in the new edition) of "If target takes 10 or more Hurt Points of damage from one attack, target must make a Body check at DN 12 to remain conscious".  Voila, instant "stun gun".

I'm getting the feeling I bought the PDF just in time for it to be replaced... The knockback rule works though...

Does that help, or are you thinking of something else?

talking any problem over always helps :-)

Wulf

[Eddy Fate]

Hmm... not sure I can reply to one of these multi-level quoted messages without getting either messy or incomprehensible...

Looks good!

"Find me a SF game!" or something like that. It quickly changed into Cynthia's CAH advert space :-)

That happens a lot.  I did find the thread, though.  I just followed the pimping.  :-)

Thanks... if it works! The basic background will be all the intelligent species driven to the periphery of the galaxy by some big bad race, but they haven't seen the big bad in about 500 years, so they're going searching for the old worlds, colonies, peoples and technology. Hopefully I can make the 'Lost technology' idea work better than Battletech did (wouldn't be hard...).

That does sound pretty cool.  I've always liked the adventure potential in "lost technology", but you're right - Battletech never seemed to make it believable.

No, UNworkable. As in...
PLAYER: Why are there no rules for space combat?"
ME: "Because the technology of this universe makes it impossible. Here's why (begin lecture on Stutterwarp Drives, quantum tunnelling, frequency matching algorithms, and various other buzzwords)"
PLAYER: "...oh..."  
I could do this, but I LIKE space combat! I took a day off school to go see the original Star Wars the day it opened in Scotland!

So do it!   Use the vehicle rules, add the movement type of "Space" (I would give it the same cost as flying), make up a few OSAs for lasers and missles, and go nuts!

I'm getting the feeling I bought the PDF just in time for it to be replaced...

Actually, not a lot is getting "replaced" - mostly it's just additions.  We are cleaning up a few rules we've found to be clunky in the PDF release, but there's no real different between Misc. Major Effect and Major Advantage - it's just a name change.  If we weren't already in the editing process, I'd debate drafting up some space combat rules for the book, but as it is, we can just write up an article for After These Messages...  :-)

talking any problem over always helps :-)

Cool!  I can't wait to hear how the game turns out!

[Cynthia Celeste Miller]

I'm going to echo what Eddy said about the hardcopy just tidying up a few things.  There is new material as well, but it doesn't change the existing rules.

As for the space combat issue, this will appear in After These Messages, probably in issue #1 or 2.

[Eddy Fate]

As for the space combat issue, this will appear in After These Messages, probably in issue #1 or 2.

See?  Told you she probably had been thinking about this already.  :-)

[Wulf]

As for the space combat issue, this will appear in After These Messages, probably in issue #1 or 2.

See?  Told you she probably had been thinking about this already.  :-)

...oh... OK, I'll stop working on mine then...

Actually, I was concentrating on Donjon first anyway, we'll play that within a couple of weeks... CAH is about a month away.

Wulf

[Cynthia Celeste Miller]

No need to abort your version of space combat rules for CAH, Wulf.  After all, yours might be better than ours.  Ya never know.

[Wulf]

No need to abort your version of space combat rules for CAH, Wulf.  After all, yours might be better than ours.  Ya never know.

Well, could you tell me if it's got much more than rules for advantageous positioning? That's as far as I'd worked so far, although I was working towards a set of ideas for air combat using advantageous terrain...

Like I said, I was concentrating on Donjon, and templates for aliens & equipment for my CAH universe.

Wulf

p.s. why can't the Forge EVER log me on automatically, like it says it will?