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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4283 Members Latest Member: - otto Most online today: 63 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
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Author Topic: Dragon Fist is Mine!  (Read 4722 times)
Pramas
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Posts: 53


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« on: November 04, 2002, 12:20:44 PM »

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Chris Pramas
Green Ronin Publishing
www.greenronin.com
greyorm
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Posts: 2233

My name is Raven.


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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2002, 08:57:37 PM »

Excellent, Chris!

I loved Dragon Fist when it first came out on the web, and I still think it rocks!  Looking forward to seeing an updated, hard-copy, for purchase verison of it!
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Rev. Ravenscrye Grey Daegmorgan
Wild Hunt Studio
quozl
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Posts: 534


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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2002, 05:39:18 AM »

First, congratulations!  I'm so happy that you finally got your baby back from WOTC.

If you could, could you answer a question about the system of the new Dragon Fist?  Will it be straight D20 or will still have the awesome stunt system you designed for the original?  I know you've said before that Dragon Fist's system is the best thing about it so I'm hoping that we don't lose any of it in the new version.

Thanks!
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--- Jonathan N.
Currently playtesting Frankenstein's Monsters
Ron Edwards
Global Moderator
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2002, 09:51:58 AM »

Hi Chris,

In the interest of making this thread as useful as possible to fellow publishers (as opposed to being a advert release), could you provide us with an account of how one acquires such a license, with this experience as an example?

- Whom do you contact? That is, what "professional person" who handles such things for the ownership of the property, not necessarily the specific person in this case.

- What do you present about yourself?

- What kind of costs are involved? Do you set up something legal first? Who writes the contract? Why?

And so on.

Best,
Ron
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Jonathan Walton
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Posts: 1309


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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2002, 08:51:41 AM »

{WARNING: Off-Topic}

Coincidentally, Jay Chou ("Zhou Jielun") has a recent album containing a track called Dragon Fist ("Long Quan").  The song rocks.

You can look at/order the album, The 8th Dimension, http://us.yesasia.com/en/PrdDept.aspx?pid=1001838423&aid=30014§ion=music&code=c&">here.  Jay is probably the best of the Chinese R&B crowd, with the additional perk that he writes all of his own lyrics (and a good portion of the music too) and likes to insert bits of traditional Chinese intrumentation into his songs.

This might be something to listen to while you're revising/rewriting your game.

{/Off-Topic}

I'm also interested in how one acquires rights.  I've often pondered what it would take to get the rights to old game lines that haven't been supported in years, assuming, of course, that the owners would be open to the possibility.

Later.
Jonathan
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Pramas
Member

Posts: 53


WWW
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2002, 12:01:52 AM »

Quote from: quozl
First, congratulations!  I'm so happy that you finally got your baby back from WOTC.

If you could, could you answer a question about the system of the new Dragon Fist?  Will it be straight D20 or will still have the awesome stunt system you designed for the original?  I know you've said before that Dragon Fist's system is the best thing about it so I'm hoping that we don't lose any of it in the new version.


I haven't made any firm decisions on the redesign yet. I have a couple of other GR projects to finish up before I dive into DF. However, I certainly plan to retain the stunt system. I would like the typical d20 player to get something out of the game, so there will be lootable things like new feats and monsters, but doing the genre justice is my top priority.
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Chris Pramas
Green Ronin Publishing
www.greenronin.com
Pramas
Member

Posts: 53


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« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2002, 12:27:09 AM »

Quote from: Ron Edwards

- Whom do you contact? That is, what "professional person" who handles such things for the ownership of the property, not necessarily the specific person in this case.

- What do you present about yourself?

- What kind of costs are involved? Do you set up something legal first? Who writes the contract? Why?



With WotC, it was easy enough for me to know who to talk to and to have easy access to them. I worked there for four years after all, so I was known (as was GR). I told them I wanted Dragon Fist, and they asked me if I was willing to pay some money for it. I made an offer, they accepted it without negotiation. WotC's legal department wrote a contract based on my proposal. That was really it.

It's usually more complicated dealing with other companies. First, you need to find out who to talk to. This is best done with personal contacts if you have them (cold calling a receptionist is unlikely to get you anywhere, at least with larger companies). If you are lucky, they are familiar with the gaming industry. If not, you first have to outline the industry in broad strokes, then show your place in it. You basically want to show them why your company is the best place for their property. It helps if you have previous products you can show off.

The tougest part is putting together an actual proposal. You need to make an offer that they'll take seriously, but that you can afford. The natural tendency is to lowball, with the assumption that the price will rise some during negotiation. If your offer is too paltry though, they'll just say no and walk away. It needs to be worth their time. If you are buying something (like we did with Dragon Fist), you only need worry about the purchase price. If you are licensing something, then you need to make some revenue projections showing them how much money they can expect to make from you. Oftentimes, contracts have guarantees (meaning no matter how the product in question sells, they make money; be careful with those). Advances are also common. Again, it proves that you are serious.

If you come to an agreement, then it's lawyer time. Larger companies have legal staffs that work up contracts. Naturally, you want to take such contracts to a lawyer of your own to have them look it over.

Those are the basics, in very general terms.
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Chris Pramas
Green Ronin Publishing
www.greenronin.com
Paganini
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« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2002, 02:35:04 PM »

Rock on, Chris! Keep us posted!
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Mike Holmes
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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Posts: 10459


« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2002, 12:51:31 PM »

Good to hear. Do you have an interest in picking up Chainmail? Would it even be possible?

Mike
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Pramas
Member

Posts: 53


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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2002, 08:23:59 PM »

Quote from: Mike Holmes
Good to hear. Do you have an interest in picking up Chainmail? Would it even be possible?


I am not really interested in picking up Chainmail. Green Ronin isn't set up to properly do a minis game, for one thing. Also, it's a damaged property and it'd be a really hard sell to distributors and retailers.

I'm not sure if it's possible. Depends on how serious WotC is about their next minis game.
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Chris Pramas
Green Ronin Publishing
www.greenronin.com
greyorm
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Posts: 2233

My name is Raven.


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« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2002, 08:33:36 PM »

Chris,

What do you mean by "damaged property" in reference to Chainmail?
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Rev. Ravenscrye Grey Daegmorgan
Wild Hunt Studio
Pramas
Member

Posts: 53


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« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2002, 12:44:36 PM »

Quote from: greyorm
Chris,

What do you mean by "damaged property" in reference to Chainmail?


I mean that Chainmail is seen as a commercial failure by distributors and retailers. Anyone who tried to revive Chainmail would be facing an uphill battle. Convincing people that you can make a success out of a game that was cancelled after only nine months on the market is quite difficult, especially if they are sitting on dead stock from the game's launch. You'll note that even WotC retail stores have had 75% off sales on Chainmail minis.

You can see this in action with Warzone and Chronopia (two minis games). Those games died off when Target Games imploded. Now a new publisher, Exselsior, is trying to revive them and he's having to sell direct to retailers because distrbutors no longer believe Warzone and Chronopia are viable games.
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Chris Pramas
Green Ronin Publishing
www.greenronin.com
greyorm
Member

Posts: 2233

My name is Raven.


WWW
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2002, 08:13:33 PM »

Ahh, I see.  Thanks, Chris!

I was under the assumption that since Chainmail had done well, and won awards, that it wasn't "damaged"...I can see how it would be considered as such given what you presented as the distributor view of the product.
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Rev. Ravenscrye Grey Daegmorgan
Wild Hunt Studio
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