News:

Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.

Main Menu

James Wallis on the state of the industry

Started by GreatWolf, November 27, 2002, 03:19:35 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

John Wick

Quote from: ValamirI'm an investment analyst by trade.  A big part of my job is analysing how businesses get the job done.  I'll never be convinced that "gaming" is somehow harder, has more obstacles, has more hostile parties, has more anything than any other industry out there.  Its just a ludicrous concept.

I'm certain you're not telling me every industry has identical problems. Sure, they can be broken down into large categories, but the individual problems are unique.

One of the problems in the game industry is that many of its professionals do not see it as an industry and openly revolt against the notion. Its almost like watching rival religious movements yelling at each other. Just take the whole GAMA membership debate. Half of them want to include retailers, while the other half think that violates the spirit of the organization. They yell and scream and throw tantrums all the time while refusing to ask the question, "What exactly does GAMA membership mean and what does it give me?" Nobody's been able to answer that adequately for me, so I never joined. (The only benefit being me able to vote on the Hall of Fame awards. Right.)

QuoteHe gets upset that game companies don't put author names on the cover and that they're more worried about the line than the author.  To which I say "no shit".

Putting the author's name on the cover is... not an issue for this discussion and will distract us from what we should be talking about. :)  

QuotePlease, its utter nonsense...like S John Ross's rant about AEG not crediting the playtesters is nonsense.  Thats "hobby" thinking, not "business" thinking.

I agree. Personally, I think he did it just to see what kind of response he'd get. But that's just me.

QuoteTake your own 7th Sea as an example.  You'd had a very successful run with L5R, had built up a fair amount of name recognition...you obviously know better than I the circumstances surrounding your name being on the cover of the 7th Sea book, but I'd speculate that it had more to do with AEG wanting to cash in on your name recognition to boost initial sales to L5R fans than any desire to "do right" by you...would I be wrong in that?

It as my decision -- as line developer -- to put authors' names on AEG books. It's professional, courtious and makes up for the complete lack of pay authors in this industry receive.

QuoteIndustry people need to decide whether this is a hobby or a business.

If you can make them all agree, you're a better man than I.  

QuoteI hear what you're saying about burning bridges...but you know, maybe its time to build some new bridges and say "to hell with the old ones".

Build them where?
Companies need the distribution chain. Or, at least, they believe they do. I don't see it, but then again, over the past two years, I've discovered a lot about my misunderstandings of how the game industry works.

It's a small pond and there's really not a lot of room to maneuver. Then again, I've already asserted my belief that a small game company (like Wicked Press or Adept Press) could make a healthy sum of money selling direct. It's like David Bowie said when an interviewer asked him why he wasn't making vidoes:  "MTV won't show them. Why should I make a video for them if they won't show it?"

In the same vein, why should I try to sell my game to distributors when they aren't interested in selling it to game store owners who aren't interested in selling it to customers? Why not just make Wicked Press an on-line presence -- a powerful one -- and sell games direct? That way, I really don't care if I piss off the distributors -- what are they going to do to me? Boycott my product? They weren't trying to sell it in the first place!
[/quote]
Carpe Deum,
John

Valamir

Quote from: John Wick
Quote from: Valamir
QuoteI hear what you're saying about burning bridges...but you know, maybe its time to build some new bridges and say "to hell with the old ones".

Build them where?
Companies need the distribution chain. Or, at least, they believe they do. I don't see it, but then again, over the past two years, I've discovered a lot about my misunderstandings of how the game industry works.

It's a small pond and there's really not a lot of room to maneuver. Then again, I've already asserted my belief that a small game company (like Wicked Press or Adept Press) could make a healthy sum of money selling direct. It's like David Bowie said when an interviewer asked him why he wasn't making vidoes:  "MTV won't show them. Why should I make a video for them if they won't show it?"

In the same vein, why should I try to sell my game to distributors when they aren't interested in selling it to game store owners who aren't interested in selling it to customers? Why not just make Wicked Press an on-line presence -- a powerful one -- and sell games direct? That way, I really don't care if I piss off the distributors -- what are they going to do to me? Boycott my product? They weren't trying to sell it in the first place!

Build it right there.  You've just sketched the first draft of a blueprint for a new bridge.  You're a game designer I'm a customer.  How do you get your game in my hands when we're seperated by a great distance?Traditionally the trip between you and me crosses over Distributor Bridge and Retailer Bridge.  But is that the only / best / fastest way to get to me?  Haven't you just outlined a different route, one that crosses "Online direct to customer" bridge?

Thats what I'm talking about.

But take it a step further conceptually.  What's the biggest pain in the ass about direct sales.  It ain't payment anymore.  Paypal has taken care of 90% of that headache.  I'd say its Fulfillment.  Someones actually got to receive the order, grab the requested items off the shelf, package it, slap an address label on it, and arrange for it to get in the hands of some postal type delivery people.  Universalis is small potatos and I've been doing it out of my home office...but it is a pain in the ass even so.

So what would happen if Wicked Press had gotten together with Hogshead and a few other industry outsider types and decided to come up with a way to handle fulfillment that didn't involve John Wick and James Wallis sealing envelopes and printing shipping labels.  Maybe a fulfillment house where you're charged a buck or two a book in "warehousing" fees, hire a couple of reliable people to work part time at the drudgery of fulfillment for a modest but reasonable pay.  The damn thing wouldn't have to turn a profit.  Between the "warehousing fees" and the "handling" part of "shipping and handling" it would have to pay the salaries of the fulfillment people and the rent on whatever warehouse space was required.  You think if enough of you got together to spread those costs around that you could have your fulfillment handled for you far cheaper than the 40-60% whack the distributor takes?  You think that if there were enough of you with enough name recognition and enough fan driven demand that the best of the retail stores wouldn't mind ordering a dozen copies direct from you to put on their shelves...especially since you could probably offer them a bigger cut and still come out farther ahead yourselves?

I'm just throwing out speculation here, but it seems to me that there are alternatives to the extremes of "slavish devotion to the three tier" vs "do it all yourself".  We've seen some of those alternatives already with Wizards Attic and Tundra...but I think it could go much farther (and Ron's already thrown out some ideas in other threads)   I would just rather have seen James be as innovative with his business practices as he was with his publishing.

John Wick

Quote
So what would happen if Wicked Press had gotten together with Hogshead and a few other industry outsider types and decided to come up with a way to handle fulfillment that didn't involve John Wick and James Wallis sealing envelopes and printing shipping labels.  Maybe a fulfillment house where you're charged a buck or two a book in "warehousing" fees, hire a couple of reliable people to work part time at the drudgery of fulfillment for a modest but reasonable pay.

It's called Wizard's Attic and it's been in place for nearly four (?) years. In fact, I used Eric Rowe's services for both of my Wicked Press products.
Carpe Deum,
John

Valamir

Quote from: John Wick
It's called Wizard's Attic and it's been in place for nearly four (?) years. In fact, I used Eric Rowe's services for both of my Wicked Press products.

Ummm, right.  Which is why I said:

QuoteWe've seen some of those alternatives already with Wizards Attic and Tundra...but I think it could go much farther (and Ron's already thrown out some ideas in other threads)

Reimer Behrends

Quote from: ValamirI see this running rampant through James interview.  He gets upset that game companies don't put author names on the cover and that they're more worried about the line than the author.  To which I say "no shit".  Do you see the name of the inventor of Post Raisin Bran on the front panel of the cereal box?  Can you give me the name of the guy who led the team that designed the Dodge Ram Pickup...will you find the team members listed in the owners manual?  Or a little closer to home, pick up virtually any Milton Bradley or Parker Brothers game and try to find the name of the game designer.  See it anywhere?  Are any of those companies concerned with the "author" or are they concerned with the brand?

Actually, in continental Europe (especially Germany and France) you will find the authors' names everywhere on boardgames. That's because there they have an unwaivable, untransferable right to be named as the author. As part of copyright law. From a pragmatic perspective, names like Alex Randolph and Klaus Teuber also are big selling points.

QuoteThe idea that XYZ somehow owes Joe something more than a promptly paid check (which I understand Joe often doesn't get which IS a problem) is ridiculous.

It's so ridiculous that it's been made part of the Berne convention. (Mind you, a part that the US Congress managed to weasel out of, but a part of the convention all the same.)

-- Reimer Behrends

John Wick

Quote from: Valamir
Quote from: John Wick
It's called Wizard's Attic and it's been in place for nearly four (?) years. In fact, I used Eric Rowe's services for both of my Wicked Press products.

Ummm, right.  Which is why I said:

QuoteWe've seen some of those alternatives already with Wizards Attic and Tundra...but I think it could go much farther (and Ron's already thrown out some ideas in other threads)

Sorry man. Didn't see that. Don't know why.
Oh, maybe its because I'm so old, dirt calls me grandpa. :)
Carpe Deum,
John