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More Sex & Sorcery debate (split)

Started by hyphz, January 15, 2003, 06:49:49 AM

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Quote from: Christopher KubasikHi Henry,

Let me take a shot at this:

Yes, all male groups can ignore these rules.  (In fact, they will have to.)

That's not quite the point that I think people are making here, though.  

I mean, can you imagine somebody going up to someone in a gaming club and saying "Hi, we wanted you to join us because we see you're a girl and we're playing this game called 'Sex and Sorcery' which requires mixed-gender groups for all its rules to apply, interested?"  Cue screaming retreat or harassment lawsuit.  It doesn't matter that there isn't necessarily any IC sex involved or that it can be left out.  The new player doesn't know that at the time they join the game because they haven't played yet, and there's a big ol' 'SEX' on that supplement cover.  Even the fact that you have to find that a female player in particular might be creepy.

Basically, I agree that multiple gender playing can be more fun.  But if a group isn't doing it already, it's probably because a) they DON'T think it's fun, b) they have other reasons not to do it, c) there are no local gamers of the opposite gender who are looking for games or d) they don't have the social skills required to maintain it.  Simply getting this supplement is not going to change any of those; and putting the gamers in a position where they have to SPECIFICALLY seek out a female player (rather than just "a new player") AND where the game title relates to sex will leave them forced to engage in behaviour that is well known to creep out female players!

Ron Edwards


I split this off from the thread Gender rules revealed [Sex & Sorcery].

I'm seein' a straw man, I'm afraid. Since the material being discussed is a thought-experiment in a sub-section of one chapter, there's no point in running around recruiting gurlz so that "we can play."

My primary concern is with multiple-gender groups that suffer from dysfunctional play, and I don't mean GNS but rather issues like characters getting raped as a form of inter-player abuse, bogus attempts at seduction via inter-character interaction, and so on. The usual defense against these things is to go into denial and stick with Ken-and-Barbie role-playing. My supplement is based specifically on keeping the out-of-game and in-game sexual/emotional/gender content without going into dysfunction.

It's not about presenting rules that (a) necessarily include fuckin' and sweatin' as in-game content and (b) necessarily include female and male players. Again, the rules notions that I present (in this part of the supplement, related to one of its points) are a thought-experiment and begin with the proposition that we already have a mixed-gender group.

You wrote,
"... can you imagine ..."

I can imagine all sorts of things. I can imagine someone reading the Dread rulebook and seizing the kitchen knife to kill the demon who's "obviously" posing as his little sister. I can imagine someone LARPing Vampire and trying to mind-control a guy on the subway-platform into jumping in front of the train.

Such imaginings play very little role in moderating my behavior about what I'm really presenting.