special kind of Heartbreaker: Universal/Generic

[John Kim]

So, in the most general of terms, specific games seem to me likely to beat generic games on a small playing field of thier own choosing. Thus I'd rather play Pendragon for Arthurian legend than try to make GURPS work for it. And before you point out that Pendragon is a modification of a Generic system (BRP) let me point out that if that's true, then D20 is generic, and so is just about every other system out there. By Generic we mean presented without additional rules specific to the genre; with rules that intend to be applicable to all situations by extension. Thus only GURPS core rules is generic (and barely at that).   As soon as you tack on some of the supplements you are playing a different game (Certainly Supers makes that point).

As I see it, there are quite a number of non-generic systems out there -- especially among independent RPGs.  Examples include Castle Falkenstein, Children of the Sun, Dreamwalker, Godlike, Fvlminata, Unknown Armies, and many others.  I think we can pretty reasonably define these as being non-generic.  

On the other hand, I think we really should classify GURPS, Hero, and JAGS as being generic -- even if they give optional rules or supplements specific to a genre.  If GURPS + a supplement isn't generic, then the list of generic RPGs becomes vanishingly small.  

Games like Pendragon which use a house system are a middle ground in some sense.  However, I would argue that they are closest to "generic" systems like GURPS, and that the difference between a "house system" and a "generic system" is mainly in marketing rather than in any functional difference.

[Sylus Thane]

So can it be fair to say that there is a difference between universal/generic and a multiverse system?

Sylus

[John Kim]

So can it be fair to say that there is a difference between universal/generic and a multiverse system?

Well, I think perhaps some benchmarks would be in order.  My definition of a generic/universal system is pretty much defined by GURPS and the Hero System, along with CORPS (2nd edition), EABA, BESM, and FUDGE.  

A house system is an identical or near-identical set of core rules with different options in different published games: like the "Silhouette" system of Dream Pod Nine, or the Storyteller system of White Wolf.  

A genre-specific system would be games like Castle Falkenstein, Fvlminata,  Underworld, or innumerable other games.  Here the system was developed solely and specifically for that genre.  (There is a tricky point in that many times systems developed for a specific genre are later applied to other genres or even published as a standalone generic set of rules.  I think the only workable answer is that by doing this they change it from genre-specific to a house system or a generic system.)

I'm not sure what you mean by a multiverse system.  One possibility would be "Torg" -- which is specific to a particular fictional universe, but that universe includes widely varied settings and even genres.  This is another middle ground, I think -- but it leans more towards genre-specific than to generic, in my opinion.

[contracycle]

I suspect he meant testing for "broken rules."

Yes, exactly, that is what I meant too.  Determining whether a rule is broken or not requires reference to the goal of those rules.  I suggest that by ensuring that all rules are NOT broken from the default GURPS perspective, they may well become "broken", uninteresting, or unaesthetic to other players and when applied to pother situations.

[Ron Edwards]

Time for daughter threads, folks, I think. One's already started about the basic terminology.

This is your moderator speaking ... find a nifty thing that remains unresolved in this thread, isolate it, and start a new one that links back this one in its first post. I think it's time to let the mom-thread retire.

Thanks,
Ron