I need advice and compassion

[xechnao]

Hi to all!!!
My first post over here!
I want to create a new rpg, possibly with some limited commercial value.
First I want to make a setting book describing the world to a point ideal for the introduction of scenarios.
These scenarios could be played by a number of players, each one by its rules but will have a logic conection between them.
Their gaming feeling to the players will be that of strategy invocation but there always be the truth of the atmosphere of the story.
Being more specific the dealing will be with two types of modules:
1st type of module:
The experience for each player will depend on how many players participate in the scenario: score of things is pre-written, so playing stands in the sharing of the roles. So the only thing that will change will be the descriptions that each role aquires. (This actually will be more of an game narration than a strategy game)

2nd type of module:
There can be various options of endings in the module depending on the score each role achieves, this meaning that the final will be the result of a matching distribution of each role's scoring. Each ending option will corrispond to a diffrent era of the world.
Each of these eras could have a description as a 1st type module.
Meaning that the two types of modules can be also intergrated.

I could also use the approach of different or parallel universes but I am not sure if I like the taste of it or if it will be easy to conect a scenario product line this way: practically and reasonably(maybe something like "The One" of jet li)
What do you think of this?

Considering the world I have many ideas of what I want and what I don't, also concerning the rules about it. The fact is that I am only one by the time and it's a bit difficult to put it all together by my only forces. I have already applied for some help elsewhere and I am waiting. As soon as you are positive I could get you informed on my aspects about this work.

[contracycle]

Hmm, well, youre in the right place.  I'd hold off on the getting of assistants until you have a very clear idea of what you want to do and how its going to work.

It sounds to me as if you are heading in a direction a number of people (including me) appear to be going - writing meta-systems that are to be later realised in play.  You probably want to look over Universalis, and maybe do some thread reading on multiple authorship, GM-full games, narratavism, director stance etc.

[Gwen]

Xechnao,

Welcome to the Forge.

From what I've read, I am sure that both modules would work perfectly fine.  However, you have to consider that half of the people might enjoy one, while the other half would enjoy the other.

If you're going to determine which module you're going to use, you need to establish your setting, so you know who you're going to pitch the idea to.

Once you have a setting and figured out the GNS, then you will know who you target is.  From there, which module to use should be pretty easy to pick.

[xechnao]

Thanks for the input and the hospitality.
Fact is that I already know what the setting is going to be and also what the modules will have to be and not have to be. It's also fact that I want to discuss these with others of the kind and see if we can possibly make a good enough product out of this.
Gwen I intend to use both modules and sometimes they will integrate in one as you can guess out (if you try hard to see what I want to say*)by the ending of my explanation of the 2nd module.

*Sorry about this but I am not english and however my ling. expression skills suck in whatever language :(

[xechnao]

So...
Guess this request to establish some partners is heading to failure. Overhere may be the largest indie-rpg internet community so the route this attempt is getting seems drastically negative.
I don't know which might be the next step

[Jasper]

Xechnao,

Attracting people to work on a project over the internet is often a very difficult thing.  Most of the people here, and in other development communities, already have projects of their own, and are thus pretty busy.  Even those not currently doing something have plenty of ideas of their own.  To attract people to something, you have to prove several things in my experience:

1. That your project is interesting.  Relatively easy.

2. That the project is different from what's already out there, and that it isn't something that just anyone could do.  Meaning that your would-be contributers haev to feel that you have better (or more well developed)  ideas than they do.

3. You have to prove that the project stands a reasonable chance of being completed.  Most internet-based projects fail.  Most fail very quickly.  They oftne fail *dispite* a whole lot of work being performed by individual members.  No one wants to waste their time and energy.


Assuming your ideas meet criteria 1 and 2, the best was to go about proving that, and 3, is to start work on the project yourself.  Get a web page, write rules, background, etc. and post it all.  Only then can people actually see what your doing (proving 1 and 2 hopefully).  If you invest time, people will also see that you're not going to drop the project on a whim, and that there's something solid to work from.  

That's my advice to you.

[xechnao]

Really thanks for your tips of advice and even more.
However I have a couple of questions:
Is it safe enough to post all my ideas openly like that on the internet? I was thinking it was more secure to take the work on a team only basis.
If this question is realistic and add the fact that I have no clue about web paging and don't even own one do you think that I should dedicate this way or wander for help on local level?
It seems that internet has much working hands around. It also seems to me right now that this doesn't mean that they are also hands for work. Am I too afraid of illusions and traps or should I check out within my lotta smaller tribe?

[Jasper]

One thing to keep in mind is that nothing any of us game designers do is particularly revolutionary, important, or lucrative.   Realistically (and I think you just have to accept this), there's probably no idea you could have that someone else couldn't come up with.  The general consensus on the theft of ideas is that it's a non-issue.  Most designers have plenty of ideas of their own anyway, and thus have no need to steal any.  So I wouldn't worry.

Concerning the internet....it's not an ideal place for all projects.  It has virtues: you can draw from an enormous pool of people with disparate talents from all across the world, who you might not be able to find anywhere else.  And if you're physically isolated, it may be the only way to go.  But those things aside, the internet is not that great for serious work, at least not by itself.  Meeting with a local group means a better connection with your fellows, fewer miscommunications, and fewer delays.  Overall, the project will run much smoother, and probably fit together better -- an internet project often will consist of disparate parts that one person brings together: not ideal.

So what should you do?  If you have a group that you can in any way work with -- who you think can commit to the project and whose work you value -- go for it, even if you could hope for a better group.  Only if there's no other option would I go for the internet when making an RPG.

[xechnao]

I guess what you say is true. But then I invite you to see: http://www.fargoth.com/
Ok, it's not the same thing exactly of a new built rpg but gives an ideal form that can present some hope on progressing a rpg project via internet.
Maybe this is the exception and maybe the guy starting it was talented this way.
Myself I think I will go tomorrow to my local rpg shop and look for some contacts or leave some announcement.

[clehrich]

xechnao,

When the game is fairly complete, you might try putting part of it up here for criticism and comment; at that stage I think you'll get good stuff here even from people totally uninterested in your game as such.  If the project gets under way, keep us posted!

Good luck

[xechnao]

I think I need to go for a net page showing my world. I have no idea how to do it and most importantly how to get copyright security. Tell me if you know...
Thnxxxxx

[clehrich]

I think I need to go for a net page showing my world. I have no idea how to do it and most importantly how to get copyright security. Tell me if you know...

There are some articles on the Forge here about getting web pages and whatnot.  

As to copyright, I think you're worrying too much.  If security is a big concern, don't put your work on the web.  If you put your work on the web in the US, it's copyrighted, whether you register that or not.  I have no idea what the laws are in Italy --- you'll have to check locally.  But people can steal what's on the web, however you register it.  Unless you plan to spend a lot of time and effort suing people, don't worry about it, or don't put your work on the web.  

Frankly, RPG writing isn't so lucrative that stealing your work is really worth a lot of money to anyone else, nor will it be worth your investment to sue someone for copyright infringement.  If you really distrust gamers sufficiently that your first concern is security, you may want to work in a different field.  In point of fact, however, people are not terribly likely to steal your work and re-publish it as their own, because they gain nothing from it --- the games just don't make enough money.

Of course there are horror stories, but I think you need to focus on what's important: writing the game.  If you love it, and your readers love it, they'll almost certainly be happy to give you credit.  If you have no game to steal, it doesn't really matter in the first place.

[DP]

xechnao,

As for Web hosting, the Forge has an article that touches on that:
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/14/

As for copyright, Italy is subject to the Berne convention that the U.S. (finally) joined, as well as the UCC that the U.S. apparently spearheaded. So you're safe.

[greyorm]

Copyright states that once it is written, the material is yours and is protected. Second, what is your specific worry about posting it? It seems to be that someone is going to steal your idea...and do what with it?

Anyone with the motivation to publish someone else's stolen idea has the motivation to develop and publish their own projects, and are thus the least likely individuals to steal your material and cause you financial damage (via court cases, stolen sales or whatnot).

Ultimately, how protective you are going to be of your intellectual property is a matter for you to decide. At some point, if you plan to publish commercially, you will have to put your project out there for the world to see, and possibly to steal...it will not be any easier to keep someone from stealing your ideas at that point, and you will have no more legal protection than if you had not published it commercially.

You get more money out of a successful copyright infringment lawsuit if you have a published product, but that's going to be about it, so unless you're planning on someone stealing an idea and you suing them, there's really no legal difference between being commerically published or "un"published.

So, as I said: ultimately, how protective you are going to be of your intellectual property is a matter for you to decide.

[xechnao]

I read the very good artcle linked above and although it seems very complicated I want to go on for a start with a webpage. Copywright stills concers me: see the fargoth linked I provided. What if someone started to public prints or copies of fargoth with all the material hosted there?
Are you saying that in Italy they cannot do if I get an italian and only an italian web hoster? Does this means that I should be carefull where the web hoster is adressed or could it be that what it will count will be my only personal adress? And if so will I get taxed if I let ads on my site or sell products from there? Does the first qusetion also mean that a company could print it at monte carlo or maybe another country and then sell it to italy through internet?
Yeah I know lots of mess but kinda complicated for me, sorry.
Thanks for anyone that bothers to give some hints over here.