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Started by Matt Snyder, February 06, 2003, 12:53:41 PM
Quote from: Matt SnyderIt is my observation (and certainly a debatable one) that "normal" folks who play most any RPG desire some mechanics to improve their characters. It's just taken for granted. You play. You get experience. Your character gets better/tougher/more powerz/whatever. Further, I think there is a desire in many role-players to enjoy prolonged campaigns, in which they play a single character for a prolonged time, ever increasing his effectiveness.
Quote from: clehrichIf you're saying what I think you're saying, it sounds right to me. Isn't that helpful? :)
QuoteI think you're saying that in a hero-quest, not everybody can be the hero.
Quote from: clehrichI think you're saying that in a hero-quest, not everybody can be the hero. You have to have the Guide (Obi-Wan, for example), and so forth. So you can't try to make the Guide go through the whole hero-quest thing, or it all falls apart. You've got to choose one PC to be the hero, and let everyone else keep the story in the air.
Quote from: Andrew MartinWhen I (and my fellow players) repeatedly used my second game system (Swift) that only had two outcomes for skill/attribute rolls, success (often) and success with difficulties (infrequent), I was amazed at the difference in player behaviour. They relaxed and did interesting things, acted like heroes (as their characters) and so on. There was virtually no demand from the players for character advancement (increased character power), beyond that generated by the actions of the characters (studying a new language, learning a new magic spell book and so on).
Quote from: clehrichStill, I think rather than necessarily moving towards setting up to do the hero-quest "right," we ought to recognize the model for what it is and set it aside when it's not necessary --- along with power-ups and other artefacts of confused modeling.
Quote from: Andrew Martin...game system (Swift) that only had two outcomes for skill/attribute rolls, success (often) and success with difficulties (infrequent), I was amazed at the difference in player behaviour. They relaxed and did interesting things, acted like heroes (as their characters) and so on.
Quote from: clehrichI think you're saying that in a hero-quest, not everybody can be the hero.
Quote from: xiombargThen, the mechanics (in terms of rewards and improvement) for each player are DIFFERENT, according to archetype.
Quote from: xiombargActually, you could hang an interesting game on that. Decide on Setting and Color for your hero quest. Everyone picks a Campbellian archetype important in the Hero Quest, including one (and only one) Hero. Then, the mechanics (in terms of rewards and improvement) for each player are DIFFERENT, according to archetype. The Hero is rewarded by increased effectiveness. The Guide is pretty effective to begin with, and is rewarded with narrative control -- the advice he gives can be "made to be true" through some metagame mechanic. (Also, once during the story the Guide can totally transform when defending the Hero against great evil, like Obi-Wan dying and getting a nifty ghost body, or Gandalf becoming Gandalf the White.)
Quotea prolonged "weeny" stage, a brief "pretty damn good" stage, and an upwardly-spiralling "unstoppable" stage
Quote from: Jack Spencer Jr[*]The boy shows promise At this stage, he skows that he has the natural gift it takes to be the hero. This is similar to Keanu Reeves's Neo from the Matrix. He has potential to be the hero and begins his journey to become that hero. Although untrained with this raw talent, Luke is far from a "weeny." He's a good shot, and expert pilot and blew up the frickin' Death Star. Hardly qualifies as a weeny. (A better example of "weeny" lies in computer games like Dragon Warrior where low-level character have no business fighting anything tougher than "slimes.")[*]Not ready yet The hero is well on his way to becoming the hero, but he is not ready yet. The point here is that although the hero has learned much, he still has much to learn.[*]Ready The training is done, and now it is time for the hero to fulfill his destiny.[/list:u]
Quote from: Jack Spencer JrI'll use Star Wars, since it's the only example of it I'm familiar with. Unlike the 36 levels of D&D (the version *I* know, anyway) Luke goes through three stages of development: farm boy to jedi-in-training to jedi knight. That's it. That last bit may be a big reason why plain old character advancement should not be confused with the hero-quest. The hero-quest has a purpose. There is something the hero is preparing to do, like overthrowing an evil galactic empire. That sort of thing. Character advancement *might* have such a grand purpose if the players decides to inject it into the game, but mostly it's about being able to kill tougher and more interesting monsters.