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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 126 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
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Author Topic: New game: Nine Worlds  (Read 8475 times)
Spooky Fanboy
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Posts: 585


« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2003, 06:43:45 PM »

Very soon, I hope.

I really, really hope...

OH, WHY MUST I SUFFER IN SUSPENSE?!!!

Ooops, sorry, that slipped out.

Take your time. Don't mind me.

I'm sure it will be worth the wait.
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Matt Snyder
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« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2003, 07:27:46 PM »

I think it will be worth the wait. I'm very excited about this game, and I hope others find it as compelling. I've been spending my free time the last week either doing freelance layout work and some rigorous creation on the rules.

The supernatural abilities (magic, I guess you could say) of player characters are shaping up to be very interesting indeed. I'm working on a lot of balancing the two aspects of an individual PC. Simply put, working to create an equilibrium between a PC's natural and supernatural effectiveness. Once I even those scales, we'll start sharing more info!

-Matt
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Matt Snyder
www.chimera.info

"The future ain't what it used to be."
--Yogi Berra
Spooky Fanboy
Member

Posts: 585


« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2003, 04:28:17 AM »

Ye gods, now I'm really hooked!

One thing I've never seen, in any game, is a balance between mundane skills versus superpowers. Superpowers usually win hands down in the "Ooh! Nifty! Must have!" department, while real-life areas of concern get short-shrift, if not eventually pushed aside altogether.

Actually, Sorcerer comes the closest in that department, because the kewl powerz, while useful, come with a pretty hefty price tag (ie. you). Thus, it's usually wise to find mundane ways to do things. ;-)
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Matt Snyder
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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2003, 07:03:20 AM »

Glad to hear that interstes you. To explain just a bit more...

A character's "natural" powers are virtues that the powers-that-be hold in high regard. In other words, these are things the gods have long valued. This is reflected by the important attribute of Arete (the Greek virtue of "excellence"). Sort of subsidiary to Arete are the four paragons: Prowess, Fortitude, Wisdom, and Command. In total, these are things the external world values, and that's partly WHY they're "natural" (rather than "supernatural") attributes. They're "natural" in part because the gods value them, and the gods say "this is how the world should work." In practical use, they let you do things that most of us would consider normal -- fight, thing, influence others, use skills, etc.

On the other hand, we have the supernatural abilities -- things that let you work some fantastical things in the world. This is represented by Hubris (the counterpart to Arete), and its subsidiaries are the Urges: Chaos, Cosmos, Metamorphosis, and Stasis. In total, these aren't things the gods necessarily value or consider virtues. These are things that YOU consider important. They are internalized virtues that you, the Demiurgist, consider valuable in your quest to shape the world according to your desires. In practical use, these are things that let you do supernatural things, like transform people or things, disintegrate things, empower artifacts, etc.

Just some more teasers! More to come soon.

Oh, and to answer some of your earlier question -- Arete and Hubris are critical stats. They are the baseline in determining how effective you are in conflict. So, you might have an Arete of 5. That means you get 5 cards in the conflict, with maybe some more cards from skills or Muses (Muses are much like Spiritual Attributes in Riddle of Steel -- thanks Jake!). Similarly, you might choose to solve a conflict supernaturally, so you'll get a number of cards equal to your Hubris rating.

Arete and Hubris also determine your fate as a character, and reaching zero in either is likely your doom. Lose Arete and you lose your body, very likely offending the Furies because you have no excellence to counter your Hubris. You're mortal, afterall, and the Furies will make you end a miserable one.

But, lose all your Hubris, and you lose your soul. This is a fate worse than death ... or mindless servitude. Afterall, you may still possess Arete (excellence) but have no sense of self (Pride, hubris). So, you could become a Shade in Hades, or maybe just another lackey of the Eternals.  Worst of all, you could face true oblivion -- your body and soul wiped from existence and memory, and your creative works forgotten forever (you know, like a game designer's game going out of print... heh).
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Matt Snyder
www.chimera.info

"The future ain't what it used to be."
--Yogi Berra
Spooky Fanboy
Member

Posts: 585


« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2003, 04:18:56 PM »

Now, here is a question: Are the two in inherent conflict (the more Arete you have, the more Urge becomes difficult to get or the more Urge you are likely to lose, and vice versa,) or are they just different sides to the same character, describing the opposite things?

I think having the two in direct conflict would be cool, but I'd have a hard time seeing why you'd want to do it, or how it'd work.

Hmmm....
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Spooky Fanboy
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Posts: 585


« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2003, 04:06:39 PM »

Okay, enough's enough...what's going on?

Is the Arete/Hubris thing being fine-tuned? Are the mechanics locked down? Is the background being spruced up? What's going on with this game?

IT'S BEEN NINE WHOLE DAYS! I NEED AN INFO FIX!!!

*pant pant pant wheeeeze*

So, what's going on?
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Matt Snyder
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« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2003, 07:27:31 AM »

Nine Days? Really? How absolutely fitting.

Well, what's going on of late is that I'm writing the text! That keeps me busy (as do a handful of freelance graphic design gigs I'm working on, alas). So, it's coming together, slowly but surely. It will be done for summer con season. I'll say more on that when I can.

The Hubris and Arete stuff is pretty nailed down now, yes. Those two Attributes aren't really in inherent conflict, as I've got the rules now. Rather, they are independent "meters" of your character's greatness. In effect, the do describe opposite things about your character.

Some other tidbits ...

I've got the plan now such that every player uses his own standard playing cards deck (jokers included). This is different than Dust Devils, which uses one deck (or two, for large groups) for everyone.

Here's a bit of a teaser from some of the character attribute descriptions that explains Arete and Hubris a bit more:  



In Nine Worlds, player characters are composed of three tiers of characteristics. Foremost are the Virtues, which define simply a character’s worth and power in the Nine Worlds. The next tier is composed of the Paragons. These are characteristics that define how a character solves conflict. Finally, characters possess a range of Devotions that specify and specialize their works and actions in the game.

Virtues

Virtues are the two most crucial attributes that define a character. These are Arete (pronounced AIR-uh-tay) and Hubris. In a word, Arete is excellence. It is the sum of a character’s merit and worth in relation to the Nine Worlds and their masters. The Eternals have long defined and judged what is great in mortals, and Arete is the singular representation of that ultimate virtue.

Hubris is Arete’s counterpart. If Arete measures a character’s worth and power externally, then Hubris defines his internal greatness, his soul. While Hubris may have negative connotations – especially excessive Hubris -- in the external world, to the individual it is a measure of pride, self-worth and the potential to affect the universe with one’s creative soul.

These two virtues are the foundation from which characters pursue change and conflict in the game. When presented with a challenge or conflict, a player must decide whether the matter will be resolved with Arete or Hubris. In effect, this choice represents the character’s ability to either resolve conflict according to the natural order of the universe using Arete, to resolve conflict according to his own personal compass using Hubris.
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Matt Snyder
www.chimera.info

"The future ain't what it used to be."
--Yogi Berra
Spooky Fanboy
Member

Posts: 585


« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2003, 04:32:55 PM »

Quote
I've got the plan now such that every player uses his own standard playing cards deck (jokers included). This is different than Dust Devils, which uses one deck (or two, for large groups) for everyone.


Which makes sense: if you're a "Master of the Universe" character, then you should have your own deck. Sure, follow the hand that Fate deals you, but it's your fate that's being decided; why should you be stuck using a common "Excellence Pool" or "Ego Pool"?

Quote
The next tier is composed of the Paragons. These are characteristics that define how a character solves conflict. Finally, characters possess a range of Devotions that specify and specialize their works and actions in the game.


Okay, you must have known this was coming: Could you please explain or at least give examples of Paragons and Devotions? Are either of these related to the Domains that you talked about earlier, i.e. Domain of Travel, domain of War, etc. ?

Don't worry, boss. The more I see, the more I like.

Funny thing about the whole Arete attribute discussion: I can see a game revolving around trying to calm down an Eternal of Death or War who has just endured The Jerry Springer show, and is now thoroughly convinced that humans have degenerated below the level of insects. Is the Eternal right? Can the Demiurgists stop Him from going Armageddon on poor, pathetic humanity? If they do, will they be forced to give him the lives of daytime talk-show hosts and reality-tv producers in exchange for sparing everyone else? Will they actually see that as a bad thing?! TUNE IN TOMORROW!!!!
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Spooky Fanboy
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Posts: 585


« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2003, 07:09:27 PM »

Also:

How are those mechanics coming along? I confess to being a little confused by them as they were originally presented.

Frex, in adding a total hand (in case of a tie), how much are wild cards worth?

And have you nailed down what tricks can be used for?
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Matt Snyder
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« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2003, 09:02:18 PM »

Quote from: Spooky Fanboy
Also:

How are those mechanics coming along? I confess to being a little confused by them as they were originally presented.

Frex, in adding a total hand (in case of a tie), how much are wild cards worth?

And have you nailed down what tricks can be used for?



The rules are coming along pretty well.

First off, to answer your previous quesitons ...

On Paragons ...

Pieties & Urges are the same for all player character and NPC demiurgists / artisans. The paragons are: Prowess, Courage, Wisdom and Command. These are effectively similar to the four attributes in Dust Devils. Prowess = Hand, Courage = Guts, Wisdom = Eye, and Command = Heart. They have much the same function. The paragons effectively let you attempt to "do stuff" normally -- fight, move, swindle, pilot, whatever. When confronting the enemy, these attributes can "attack" that enemy's Arete or Hubris (or Power, which is the Titan equivalent). You use tricks earned to do this.

Urges are different. They are: Chaos, Cosmos, Metamorphosis, and Stasis. These let you "do magic stuff." What that actually means is that you use tricks to actually increase, decrease or even move around the ratings of Paragons! You can increase your own attributes, shift 'em around, or even decrease them with Chaos (though who knows why you'd do that). You can also do the same to allies and enemies. Cool.

Ok, on to your newer questions ...

Don't worry overly much about tied hands. The important thing is figuring out whether or not you beat your opponent's number of "matched" cards played. (That is, the number of the same suit he lays for his goal.) The tie breaker will be slightly less confusing than what I presented earlier, I hope. FYI, if I do go for the "total up the hand" route, then the wild card is worth 0.

Finally, tricks are indeed 'mostly' nailed down. The only remaining things are finalizing details for what happens when tricks are converted into the metamechanics of Valor & Pride. These are effectively "banked" tricks, and you can bolster your effects w/ each. They might also be used to do more metagame things, like assume some stance control, improve characters, etc.
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Matt Snyder
www.chimera.info

"The future ain't what it used to be."
--Yogi Berra
Spooky Fanboy
Member

Posts: 585


« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2003, 08:04:29 AM »

Now, while I've been taking a break from Nine Worlds to peek in on what some other folks have planned, don't think for a minute I've forgotten.

What's going on? Do you need playtesting? *drools* Please don't get upset at my seeming impatience; I honestly have only the dimmest idea of what goes into the professional production of a RPG.

Just curious, is all.
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