I'm new and baffled!

[Brian Leybourne]

I guess I'll have to find some time this weekend and re-read the parts on Proficiencies and Combat ,because as you say, it's really confusing and to be honest I don't understand the Defaults thing or the explanations above :(

It's really not that complicated. We're probably just not explaining it well.

Lets say you buy priority B in proficiencies at character creation. This will give you 9 points to assign to proficiencies, with a maximum of 7 in any one.

So, pick one you like for your character. Maybe you decide he's a sword and shield guy. Spreading yourself across lots of proficiencies doen't work well in TROS, it's better to go heavy on one or two. So, we put 7 points in Sword and Shield.

Now, lets look at what defaults that gives us. Looking at the defaults list under Sword and Shield on page 50, we see the following:

Case of Rapiers -4
Cut & Thrust -2
Dagger -2
Doppelhander -4
Greatsword -2
Mass Weapon and shield -1
Pole Arms -4
Poleaxe -4
Pugilism/Brawling -4
Rapier -4
Wrestling -4

This tells us what modifier to apply to the 7 points to give us our default for those weapon styles. If we decide that our character is really into wielding a greatsword/longsword as well (in case he loses his shield perhaps) then he already has a score of (7-2) 5 in that. We still have 2 points out of our original 9 that we have not spent yet, so we can then assign those points to Greatsword, bringing it up from our default of 5 to a final score of 7. So, by spending all 9 points, we have Sword and Shield at 7, and Greatsword/Longsword also at 7. Not bad.

Or, you could decide that your guy always uses a shield, but likes axes and maces as well. Looking at the "Mass Weapon and Shield", we see the default is -1, so he already has a 6 in that proficiency. Adding one point (we have 2 still to spend, remember), brings that up to 7 (7 is the maximum score you can have at this point, unless you started with an A priority in proficiencies, in which case it's 8). So now we have just one point left to spend. Perhaps we want to have Dagger skill as a backup in case we lose our weapons or get into really close quarters combat. The default there is -2, making the current score 5. Adding our final point brings it up to 6. So, in the end we have spent our 9 points to get: Sword and Shield 7, Mass Weapon and Shield 7, Dagger 6. Also not bad.

Hopefully that'll clear it up for you. The only other thing to remember is that a default score can never exceed 6. So even if I have a Sword & Shield style of 10, my Mass Weapon and Shield score default would still only be 6, and then I could add points to it.

Brian.

[arxhon]

That's a much better explanation than mine, snd is really how it should have been explained, but hey. He who gets everything right on the first try is perfect, which none of us are.

Good job! :-)

[Tywin Lannister]

That was a good explanation, thank you very much! I didn't realize that those modifiers could be "used" to buy a second proficiency cheaper.

[Callan S.]

Of course you're more than welcome to post questions here... we don't bite, honest. Just don't ask how to make a fireball using the sorcery rules, that one has been done well past death and through a few thousand years of undeath into the bargain.

As for AI in the combat sim... yes, I did start that. So far it picks stances and whether to attack or not, and then I got to the part where I have to design an algorithm that will actually pick an intelligent attack based on what weapon it has, what weapon you have, where/what your armor is, how many CP it has, how many CP you have, whether this is exchange 1 or 2, how many CP it will need to protect itself if the attack fails and of course that depends on the expected number of CP you'll have left after you've defended in this exchange, and so on... Believe me, the guy who designed the Chess algorithm had it easy... it's pretty easy to look 3 moves ahead for every piece on the board and what all the possible counter-moves are etc, and then see which one leaves you in the best position... TROS combat, believe it or not, is a lot more complex than that.

Besides which, I've been working on the Character Generator software, which is actually finished, but I'm waiting for my testers to get back to me with any bugs, then I have to pretty it up and wrap an installer around it etc, and then I'll give it to Jake for the webpage.

Once that's actually done, and assuming I don't have any last minute OBAM changes to make after the editor has finished with it, I'll get back to the Combat Sim. If any of ya are really good at complex algorithm design...

Brian.

You work too hard. And I'm not even joking... :)

Personally I'd skip the really intelligent move choice for now...your probably overwhelming yourself with all the options.

Just keep to the basic 'high defence to probe the enemies CP count, then dropping it down once its approximated'. So the program just uses 80% of its dice on defence or whatever, then drops that a bit by the second round when it thinks it has its enemies CP amount (Based on that CP, it then uses X amount of dice). I'd even suggest its attack location selection being random, since the old bladeslingers advice about hitting a foe in armoured spots to make him complacent is a valid one (ie, it doesn't matter if its random and hits in silly spots like the shield arm, it'll probably catch out people that way every so often!).

I'd really just concentrate on the basic poke and cut stuff, nothing more complex, as its the basics. Yep, that doesn't cover anywhere near the potential of TROS, but you can only really build one layer of the 'onion' at a time, and this is one of them. The others come latter. :)

[Sneaky Git]

Lets say you buy priority B in proficiencies at character creation. This will give you 9 points to assign to proficiencies, with a maximum of 7 in any one.
Brian.

Really?  Why is 7 the maximum?  I thought 8 was the max.  Did I miss something...or...can you not have a proficiency within two of your total?

Chris

[Ashren Va'Hale]

8 is the max if your proficiency priority is A, 7 is the max if the priority is anything else

[Sneaky Git]

Ah.  Gotcha.  Thanks.

[Brian Leybourne]

Lets say you buy priority B in proficiencies at character creation. This will give you 9 points to assign to proficiencies, with a maximum of 7 in any one.
Brian.

Really?  Why is 7 the maximum?  I thought 8 was the max.  Did I miss something...or...can you not have a proficiency within two of your total?

Chris

8 if your priority is A, but 7 otherwise. I actually said that 2 or 3 paragraphs below the above quote :-)

Brian.

[Tywin Lannister]

We have scheduled to start the campaign next Saturday, while I am still new and baffled. I think it's more interesting to learn the game through play than through reading.
I think I have most of it covered, and I wonder how long it will take to get a good grasp of each maneuver and skills' rules.

[Brian Leybourne]

We have scheduled to start the campaign next Saturday, while I am still new and baffled. I think it's more interesting to learn the game through play than through reading.
I think I have most of it covered, and I wonder how long it will take to get a good grasp of each maneuver and skills' rules.

Excellent, hope you guys have a blast.

If you're open to some advice, then may I suggest that if you're still a bit unsure about the rules then your players are probably even more so. You could do a lot worse than running an initial "doesn't matter" session, where there are no long term consequences for the players, so they can find their feet.

In fact, one good way to start a campaign that several of us here have used is to hand out pre-prepared characters to the players for the first session. The situation is that they're mercenary types who have been hired to protect a caravan because it has a valuable cargo (in my case, a Dutchess, but YMMV). Let them roleplay a while, learn how the system works, and then throw the ambush. Make it really hard with more than enough oppoisition to ensure that they all die, but make sure that it takes a while for them to drop, so they have plenty of time to try out combat maneuvers, bring SA's into play (one of my players rewrote one of his SA's on the fly to Passion: Love for the Dutchess and used it to great effect). Eventually they're all dead, but they have a very solid grounding in the combat system (what orks, and especially what doesn't), the skill system and the SA system, plus (hopefully) they're really pumped.

This should take about half your first session. For the other half, make up their real characters, and tell them that they need to make sure their characters are in some way linked to the character they just played (brother, best friend, whatever). This way, all the characters have a common link right at the start, because they all had a loved one who has gone missing, and it gives you something to kick off the campaing with (i.e. the investigation).

Anyway, not to step on your toes or anything, this is just something that quite a few of us here have used and it works really well.

Have fun!

Brian.

[Tywin Lannister]

You could do a lot worse than running an initial "doesn't matter" session, where there are no long term consequences for the players, so they can find their feet.

Yes, that is how I have planned the first session, but we have already made the "real" characters; PC 1 is a noble lord's son, living on a desolate, windswept island. The lord himself is remarried to a much younger lady, who brought her own household to the island, including PC 2, a knight (the PCs become step-cousins for natural bonding implementation TM). PC 2, the knight, will be sort of a mentor to PC 1, and together they train in the courtyard during the first sessions when I have to give out a lot of information anyway - so we learn some tricks and rules through that. ("That blow would have cut my head off", "You wouldn't even have scratched me with that attack" etc.). In this way, we can play around with the rules, and at the same time I can detail the setting which I think is really important to give the players that illusion of actually being there :)

Let them roleplay a while, learn how the system works, and then throw the ambush. Make it really hard with more than enough oppoisition to ensure that they all die, but make sure that it takes a while for them to drop, so they have plenty of time to try out combat maneuvers, bring SA's into play (one of my players rewrote one of his SA's on the fly to Passion: Love for the Dutchess and used it to great effect)

Is still love this idea though :)

Anyway, not to step on your toes or anything, this is just something that quite a few of us here have used and it works really well.

No offense taken, I find it amazing that you bothered to share this. Thanks, that's very nice of you!! :) I think I'm gonna like it here.

[Brian Leybourne]

Let them roleplay a while, learn how the system works, and then throw the ambush. Make it really hard with more than enough oppoisition to ensure that they all die, but make sure that it takes a while for them to drop, so they have plenty of time to try out combat maneuvers, bring SA's into play (one of my players rewrote one of his SA's on the fly to Passion: Love for the Dutchess and used it to great effect)

Is still love this idea though :)

Somewhere on the board I posted a breakdown of that first session. What was really cool was that the player who rewrote that SA actually survived the "against all odds" fight. The Duchess got stabbed, or raped or something, I don't recall exactly now, but anyway he used that as an excuse to rewrite the SA into a passion for her, and he earned it up to 5 while fighting to save her, spent some of it on the fly, earned it back up to 5, etc. Despite facing a rediculous number of foes, he actually survived, and managed to escape with her, saving her life. The other players all made up their characters at that point, and he kept his survivor, meeting up with the other characters who were in a camp known to him in a nearby wood (Robin Hood type "shades-of-grey" good guys). He kept that pre-gen character instead of making up a new one and the Duchess fell in love with him, etc. It turned out to be a damn good start to the game.

Brian.

[Lance D. Allen]

Characters intended to die by their creators, living despite all odds due to grand applicability of their SAs seems to be a common theme around here.. I remember someone having a character kill oodles of Gols (or something) in a cramped staircase due to this, despite it being intended as a last stand.

[Valamir]

Not only did they learn the combat mechanics, and to respect the blade, but they saw first hand graphic proof of what SAs are for.  Couldn't have had a better starting scenario if you'd scripted it that way, Brian.

[Ashren Va'Hale]

yeah, that gol incident was my charcter and it was the sa's but also a hefty dose of strategy- Knowing when to throw red, knowing where to make the stand, who to strike first, how to hit them where to put what quantity of dice in what type ofsplits etc. The strategy aspect of the game is astounding and thats what takes  a little longer to learn. Even after a year of playing I only recently figured out the best way around certian maneuvers and when not to employ others.