saddle-stitching and page counts

[Paul Czege]

Hey,

Can anyone tell me maximum reasonable page counts for saddle-stitch bindings? I'm trying to determine if I need to adjust my page design to reduce page count.

Thanks,

Paul

[Clay]

Paul,

Call your printer and find out what they can handle.  Although there's probably a maximum reasonable size, individual printers will have different equipment and methods that will influence what they can do.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

I think what Paul's calling for is a little less tangible than that - more of an "industry expectation" rather than a logistic one.

For instance, in book-printing, multiples of 16 pages are obligatory due to the mechanics of binding quires. But in saddle-stitching, no such constraint applies ... obviously, a multiple of four is desirable, but not 16. So why then do I consistently see 32-page and 48-page saddle-stitched games? Is the book-constraint simply adopted into the technology that doesn't require it out of habit or tradition? Or is there something else going on?

I don't know the answer, and as I'm considering switching Trollbabe over to hard copy, I'm very interested.

Best,
Ron

[Paul Czege]

Hey,

I think what Paul's calling for is a little less tangible than that - more of an "industry expectation" rather than a logistic one.

I'm under the impression that all bindings have a maximum sustainable size. And for saddle-stitching, depending on paper weight, I suspect it's more than a couple of hundred pages. But that's not exactly what I'm looking for here. If you've seen Element Masters, which is saddle-stitched, I suspect you had the same initial reaction that I did, that it's just too damn thick for the staples. They cut into the spine, dimpling the cover in a weird way. So, what I'm after here are recommended reasonable page count limits, not maximums. I haven't bid the project out yet. In fact, I haven't finished writing it yet. But my initial pass at laying out my draft has me thinking I'm going to come in at more than 48 pages. I like the saddle-stitched binding. It's a lay-flat binding that doesn't compromise the structural integrity of the pages the way coil bindings do. And it gives a nice retro feel to a RPG, I think. So what I'm looking for is informed advice about whether I should rework my layout if I want the product to look nice with a saddle-stitched binding, as well as any other comments about paper weight or trim size or the multiples of sixteen pages thing that might bear on the issue.

Thanks,

Paul

[jrs]

Paul,

I've seen page count maximums for saddle-stitch binding range from 48 to 120 pages.  Although theoretically, the page count need only be divisible by four, I'm guessing that a printer's equipment and standard workflow has a greater influence on practice -- a printer could be set-up to produce 16-page signatures regardless of the final binding treatment.

Julie

[quozl]

I'm not sure what the page count is but 2nd edition Teenagers From Outer Space had a pretty big page count and was saddle-stitched and didn't warp the cover like I've seen bigger page counts do.  I think it was around 80 pages.

[Chris Passeno]

Ron:
A 16 or 32 page sig (signature) is what the big boys use.  They are specific types of printers who are Web-fed (a huge roll of paper) or 40" sheet-fed printers.  A 4 page sig can be done on a 11x17 sheet of paper.  Most any printer and/or copy shop can produce that.  Therefore, if a big boy is gonna print it, they will run the bigger sig, cause that's more economical for them.  If a Smaller Printer is gonna print it, they will use a 4 page sig.  So to sum it up, it depends on the equipment they have.

Paul:
The thickness does depend on stock.  For instance, I bought "Call to Duty", a d20 paladin book, as a pdf and printed it out at work.  It's a 64 page + cover.  I did the insides on a 60# opaque and the cover in a 100# gloss cover.  It looks just right.  I wouldn't go much more than that with that book.  A thinner inside sheet, like a 50# would allow you to get more.

Clay's right.  If you contact your printer and request a dummy to be made in the paper its gonna be produced in, they should put one together without much hassle.  That way you can judge for your self.

Hope this helps,
Chris

[Paul Czege]

Hope this helps,
Chris

Yes, very much. Thank you.

Paul