First post, thoughts on Eastern martial arts

[Eamon Voss]

I thought about using GURPS Martial Arts as reference guide. For example there is many different kicks, so I think only one kick maneuver is not enough. I try to convert those maneuvers to TROS and we will see how it works.

I disagree.  If you put in myriads of kicks, then you have to put in the myriad of punches.  And while you are at it, think about the myriad of weapon strikes one can do.  

For example, lets take the 'cut'.  Off the top of my head I can think of 4 different cuts from the backhand position from just one of my martial arts.  Each is distinctively named.  My other weapon style doesn't cut like this at all, insisting on a two handed grip which makes the slashes of the first style nigh impossible.  Should TROS feature each different type of cut?

The beauty of TROS is that it doesn't focus on the niggling differences between a cut, slash, or hack, or conversely a standing thrust or lunge.  Instead, by focusing on the larger considerations of the fight (feinting, beating, counters, as well as strikes), you get a better feel for the tempo and dynamism of the battle.

Besides, what I call a spin kick now is different than what I called it at my previous EMA school.  What is a spin kick to you?  Also, what is the difference between a half-moon, round and roundhouse kick?  In some places they mean the same thing, in others they do not.  So don't forget to include precise definitions!  And modifications to EVERY kick for the jumping variation!

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Folks often tend to forget that variants of a particular attack are handled in TROS by dice allocation and description, not by choice of maneuver. The more dice you put into a particular attack, the more committed the physical motion in the game-world. Think of that commitment as a combination both of "move" and of immediate skill.

Hence a character with just a few dice in his Whatever-you-call-it Unarmed CP fully commits to a "kick." For one thing, it's not well-placed and not exceptionally powerful; for another, he's also not recovering well from it and hence "open" for a longer period of time, before & during & after.

Whereas a character with a hefty CP simply has more dice. If he commits to a kick, it's a better kick. Taken most literally, it means the same kick as the above fighter's, only better timed, delivering more power, and recovering in such a way that he is "open" for a much narrower window of time (and quite likely when the opponent isn't well-placed to use that window).

Here's my point: we can identify the difference between the two above paragraphs, in play, as also including the difference in kick technique - such that the latter, more skilled fighter has delivered not only a better kick, but a different one.

In playing and thinking this way, it is entirely up to the player whether the technique difference is involved. In one exchange, the character simply delivers a remarkably fast and well-timed front snap kick (as opposed to the less skilled fighter's inept version); in another, it's a spinning heel kick (as opposed to the front kick altogether). In game terms, there's no difference for these to be represented as different maneuvers; you already have the dice working for you to deliver the intended effect (i.e. better) and the description is up to you.

I think people often miss this aspect of TROS play, which is very clearly laid out regarding weapon-combat - the rules do not model each and every aspect of the fight-details from the ground up. It's why I recommend playing without the maneuvers to see what is already embedded in the base system, in order to see that the maneuvers are an add-on modifying rules-set rather than the combat system's core.

Best,
Ron

[Eamon Voss]

Thanks Ron, you said it better than I ever could.

[Calder]

First. Good show, Ron.   Couldn't agree with you more.  Moving on from that, I was thinking more about wrestling.  I think what wrestling needs is a list of it's own maneuvers.  A simple opposed roll woulld be sufficient if all you wanted to do was pin the other guy.  But in actual, non-sport grappling situations, the real goal is to hurt the other person. Badly.  So 'Pin' might be an example of a specific maneuver, where all you're trying to do is immoblize someone.  'Submission' could be another example of a maneuver, using chokeholds or limbholds.  You could also have maneuvers that attempt to do actual physical damage.  Short hooks to the head or abdominals, knees to the groin, limb-breaks, etc.  And there are defense options as well.  Guards, slips, so on.  One important aspect of the combat is also jockeying for position, i.e. being on top.  And there are plenty of real-life grappling maneuvers for taking a superior position and maintaining it.  Hrmmm...  I could start going into some ideas of how these maneuvers would work specifically, systemwise.  But I'm curious to see what people think first.

Have a good one, folks.

Calder