World-building -- getting strated

[OblioDanger]

Hello, all.

I've got a question... can anyone recommend a good piece of software for starting world-building?

I'm looking for software where I can lay out coastlines, map out terrain types, drop in cities and towns, and be able to zoom in and out to the level of individual buildings.

If I could also find software that let me map out items needed for weather prediction, like ocean currents, climate zones, and prevailing weather tracks, that would be phenomenal.

I've already found WeatherMaster by http://www.milieusim.com, and it looks pretty good, but I'm looking for more than this software can help me with.

Can anybody make any useful suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

[OblioDanger]

Never mind -- I just found Campaign Cartographer and Fractal Terrains at http://www.profantasy.com/.

It looks like all I'll need.

:D

[J. Backman]

You should also try AutoREALM, which is quite similar to CC, but free. It's also easier to use and much faster.

[Brian Leybourne]

CC and Fractal Terrains (they also have a City Designer and Dungeon Designer) are really good products, but there is a *very* steep learning curve, becauser they're based on CAD software instead of more standard painting/graphics software, and everything is a bit cockeyed.

As a really minor example, in Windows it's standard to select something and then use the copy/cut command. In CC, you use the copy/cut command and then select what you want to apply the command to.

That's a very minor example, but speaks to what I'm saying. You WILL spend a LOT of time getting anything useful out of CC, but once you're good at using it, you can make some extremely beautiful results.

Brian.

[Jason Kottler]

Having not used CC, I can't comment on it. But I chose Izandawo over AutoREALM when last I was investigating this.

For planetary maps and visualizations there are all sorts of fractal coastline generators and stuff out there. Check out Mojo World for what's probably the most fully realized example. Terragen is a wonderful free tool.

[J. Backman]

I chose Izandawo over AutoREALM when last I was investigating this.

Izandawo is good too (it features some textures made by yours truly), but it doesn't support fractal lines -- which are basically a neccessary tool if you are doing geographical features like coastlines and rivers. IMO, Izandawo is better suited for tile-based mapping.

[Jason Kottler]

Uh...use the polygon tool, deselect "draw closed" and select "Fractal" as the draw style.

I haven't used either extensively, I just liked Izandawo better. To each his own.

[J. Backman]

Uh...use the polygon tool, deselect "draw closed" and select "Fractal" as the draw style.

I haven't used either extensively, I just liked Izandawo better. To each his own.

Ah, my bad, I think I was using an older version.

[OblioDanger]

Hey,

Just wanted to let all you guys know I appreciate the suggestions, and I'm looking at them as I go along.

I'm having a LOT of fun with Fractal Terrains right now... I'm looking to see if I can import a map of early Earth (like just after the breakup of Pangea) into Fractal Terrains, and then do some further tweaking using both Fractal Terrains and Campaign Cartographer.

Now that this thread is in the publishing section, I guess I'll tell you (anyone who is interested) that I'm not really working on this map for a game, but for a novel.  But who knows what permutations it will go through during the life of the project?

Who knows...

Well, thanks for the help, all.

Peace,

[talysman]

here's another suggestion: Terragen. it's the program I used to generate the full-color photorealistic images for Troubadours of Verticaille. with the right plug-ins, it can export a height-map, or import one from one of the fractal generators like Wilbur. either use the height-map in an image editor like The Gimp or Photoshop to create contour maps, or load the height-field into programs like Campaign Cartographer or NBOS Fractal Mapper, et voila! you can have maps and "photos" of the mapped areas.

I prefer non-photorealistic for a lot of things, so I usually modify the images afterwards. you will need to modify the images if you want waterfalls, vegetation, and other such details.

[The Gentleman]

In a similar vein, are there any map-builders for modern cities? Even just towns would do, but there doesn't seem to be any that I know of- obviously countries and rural areas are easier.

[simon_hibbs]

In a similar vein, are there any map-builders for modern cities? Even just towns would do, but there doesn't seem to be any that I know of- obviously countries and rural areas are easier.

Campaign Cartographer 2, again, is the most advanced tool in this
respect, especialy with the City Designer add-on pack. This includes
several libraries of themed buildings, and a automatic random
street tool that auto-generates a string of buildings.

One big advantage of CC2 and it's add-ons over the free tools are
the extensive libraries of drop-in symbols you get. There are also
a lot of free symbols you can download in CC2 format.

The user interface has recently had a prety extensive overhaul, but it
is still a professional level tool, with the sophistication this involves.
I have used it to great effect in my games. I only produce rough
city maps, and some simple local are maps for SF games and the like,
and I find CC2 easy enough to use for that.


Simon Hibbs

[Sturn]

I own and have used both Fractal Mapper and Campain Cartographer.  CC is a more powerful tool, but it has a steep learning curve as someone said above.  It is nice once you master it, but you have to keep using it or your skills will falter - stop making maps for a couple months, come back, and you have to crack open the user manual all over again.

Fractal Mapper I picked up a few years after CC and I was impressed.  It has a learning curve also, but it is much easier to master then CC.  It is also cheaper.  I think FM will give you everthing you need.

[Brian Leybourne]

Fractal Mapper I picked up a few years after CC and I was impressed.  It has a learning curve also, but it is much easier to master then CC.  It is also cheaper.  I think FM will give you everthing you need.

?!?!?

Fractal Terrains is good at making whole-world maps, but only by plugging in figures into poorly labelled and defined variable boxes and seeing what result it spits out.

Once you have a world that you like, you can raise or lower the temperature and water level etc, but actually editing the map is next to impossible while keeping it looking nice - the editing tools are useless. Far better to make a map you like in Fractal Terrains, then export it into CC2 and do your editing and map-making there.

One nifty hint - as long as you don't alter the actual coastlines etc once you get the map into CC2, you can do all of your city and overland symbols etc, and then import the original pretty Fractal Terrains output as a background picture so it looks a lot nicer than standard CC2 output.

Brian.

[talysman]

wrong program, Brian... NBOS Fractal Mapper includes a program called Fractal World Explorer that works sort of how you describe, although not with those specific problems... but it's mainly to create realistic relief maps to use as backgrounds in Fractal Mapper. there is a fractal tool in Fractal Mapper itself, but it is mostly a traditional mapping tool for dungeons, cities, and wilderness maps. it basically works sort of like a tile-based mapper, but uses tiles for map symbols instead of map pieces.

for cities, the Fractal Mapper actually has a house and inn generator that plops appropriate symbols in various orientations. sounds about right for the task described. but if he already has CC, he might as well just get the city add-on.