HarnMaster Combat review on rpg.net

[Eamon Voss]

I think TROS is a lot like Rolemaster in a sense.  Both games give you a general weapon pool.  In RM it is % in TROS it is # of dice.  They then both make you decide how much of your weapon 'ability' to put toward attack or defense.  Most other games don't really do that.  I definitely agree that the TROS system is easier and more elegant than RM by far but the basic principle of the choice between attack and defense is there.

You are wrong.  Dead wrong.  Or at least that is my opinion.   :)

Hero has fighting and martial arts manuevars that sacrifice offense for defense.  Many other games have followed suit.  Role master is just the only percentage system as far as I know that uses this sort of system.

Where TROS differs from everything else (except early editions of Chivalry & Sorcery) is that your dice pool is combined with dynamic initiative, in that you are not taking simplistic turns whacking each other.  Instead you take the offense and try to hold it until the other guy is dead.  Role master does nothing of the sort.  Thanks to the speed chart and aborted actions in Hero, it does a similiar thing, but with much more bookkeeping.

Remember, Rolemaster or HarnMaster are games where you take turns whacking each other with sharp objects.

TROS is a game where you have to set up the attack and follow it up.

[toli]

I haven't played Hero or C&S so I can't comment on those games.  If you think that I am dead wrong, you are over interpreting my comment.

All I said was that RM was a lot like TROS because you have to make a choice as to how you want to allocate your combat ability to defense and offense.  That aspect is different from most other games I've played where you have an attack probability (%, d20 roll or what ever) and a separate more or less unaffected defense probability (armor class, % to parry or what ever).

I'd agree that RM still has the your turn/my turn hack away aspect to combat.

TROS is really the only game I've played where success in combat is not just probability and statistics....


NT

[Spartan]

What gets me is the comparisons between TROS and HarnMaster (HM) or Role Master (HM).  I don't see how those fit.

It's not so much the mechanics of the games that are compared... it's the esthetics thereof.  TROS, HM and RM (and C&S) are all geared towards gritty realism, where combats really matter, and your next fight really could be your last.  Mechanics-wise, TROS and the rest have very little in common (HM and C&S are relatively close to each other though), but in the mood of the games they help create, they can be quite similar.

-Mark

[toli]

I've always thought a good gauge of "gritty realism" is:

"can you die from one dagger wound?"

TROS, RM, Harn and even Runequest all seem to fit this bill to me, although they differ in many other ways.

NT

[Brian Leybourne]

I've always thought a good gauge of "gritty realism" is:

"can you die from one dagger wound?"

That doesn't quite work, since a level 1 wizard or sorcerer can die from a single dagger wound in D&D, but nobody would call that a gritty game :-)

Brian.

[Mike Holmes]

You know what he means, Brian.

"Can anyone, anywhere die from a dagger wound if things go way against them."

I don't think D&D qulaifies for that (though now you'll point out that the right character with the right feats, rolling a critical...).  :-)

In any case it's indicative of an ideal, not a specific application.

Mike

[Morfedel]

Personally I think TROS is closer to ONE (Godlike) or Exalted/Trinity than it is to HM or RM.

Actually, its ORE (One Roll Engine), not ONE, for Godlike. And so far, to be honest, ORE is my favorite game engine overall, bar none. But I'd have to put some work in to convert it for fantasy, and TRoS' passion system in specific sounds tre cool.

But be warned! The ORE engine is being used, with some small revision, to make a WUXIA-like, ancient china fantasy game that they claim will be useful for standard fantasy as well; its called Weapons of the Gods.

Oh, side note, that company is using a brand new system called Framewerks for a new game called CthulhuTech: imagine blending Call of Cthulhu in the future, in an all out war against.... japanime-style MECHA. The concept is that mecha, bio-hybrids, and other things learned from our study of Cthulhu-mythos technology, led to these developments just as the Mi-go and other threw aside any semblance of secrecy and are at all-out war against us.

Strange, but kind of intriging too, hehe.

[toli]

I've always thought a good gauge of "gritty realism" is:

"can you die from one dagger wound?"

That doesn't quite work, since a level 1 wizard or sorcerer can die from a single dagger wound in D&D, but nobody would call that a gritty game :-)

Brian.

Point taken.  True but 1st level magic users are very weak.  I guess I really mean for the "rule" to apply to combat oriented characters or higher level (experienced) characters.  With 300 hit points, it takes hours to kill some one with a d4 dagger....one blow in a game like TROS and well....

[Brian Leybourne]

Yeah, I know what you're saying, mate. I was just being difficult :-)

Devils advocate and all that.

Brian.

[toli]

No problems here....

[Coplen]

Harn combat is actually a mess. I cannot stand it! The damage seems hokey to me. YMMV.

The combat system also is what sold me on the game.

Uh.. maybe I'm being thick, but...

What?

A "messy hokey" system sold you on the game? Are you a massochist?

Brian.

No, I'm a sadist :)

I dislike Harn's combat. The damage is too chancy for my tastes. Hitting a guy with an A4 hit to roll a 4 sucks. Mogensen (sp?) has a website up that deals with this. He has a nice houserule that I used when GMing Harn.