Shapeshift question

[Rod Anderson]

Hi, I'm trying to help one of my players, Ben, with a starting Demon. A dry description: She's a demure young woman with (I think) Cloak, Perception and Hint, who Shapeshifts into a gigantic watersnake with (at the least) Big, Travel, Transport, and Special Damage, and possibly a higher base Stamina Score than the girl, although Big might be enough to cover that. The Power-sets of the two forms are mutually exclusive, and the specifics are malleable at this point.

So, how may I go about handling this treatment of Shapeshift? Some things I'm wondering:

Is this, like a Champions-type thing where I've got two different character sheets with different Scores on them, and shape them out with the Shapeshift . . . or is it one big Demon with a buttload of Powers and some restrictions on their use?

It's stipulated that she can only change into the big snake upon being kissed by the Sorcerer -- is there any reason to suppose that that would play a role in statting out the Demon, a la Limitations in Champions? I wouldn't expect so, but just in case someone thinks of something clever, I'll throw it out there. (Oh, hmm . . . maybe it's all in their heads that he has to kiss her!


Rod

[Zamiel]

Is this, like a Champions-type thing where I've got two different character sheets with different Scores on them, and shape them out with the Shapeshift . . . or is it one big Demon with a buttload of Powers and some restrictions on their use?

I'm essentially a lazy man at heart, and thankfully Sorcerer plays to my biases.  I'd stat it up as a single high Power Demon with the limitations being just narrative things. They don't get you cost breaks for not being used to the extreme edge of their possibilities, they're just simply counted.  (One of my favourite bits about Sorcerer and how it handles things, in fact.)

[Clay]

. . . maybe it's all in their heads that he has to kiss her!

Put it all in her head. Sure, she's got this cool ability, but she's not going to whip it out for him unless she gets some touch. She sounds like she'd work well as a high maintenance model, which would create the necessar effed up relationship with the sorcerer.

Clay
avoider of high-maintenance types

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Rod,

Is this, like a Champions-type thing where I've got two different character sheets with different Scores on them, and shape them out with the Shapeshift . . . or is it one big Demon with a buttload of Powers and some restrictions on their use?

The latter. Just put a star next to the Shapeshift and all the abilities associated with the other form, and also, don't forget to notate the Stamina adjustments. I don't think you'll need any official "Stamina increase" beyond those.

It's stipulated that she can only change into the big snake upon being kissed by the Sorcerer -- is there any reason to suppose that that would play a role in statting out the Demon, a la Limitations in Champions?

Much to some players' disappointment, no. They're all like, "But shouldn't that make it cheaper?" and I'm like, "Why?", and they go, like, "So I can spend the points on something else," and I, like, go, "Which would raise Power and Will anyway, wouldn't it, so just increase them in the first place, knot-head."

I also think the whole notion of whether the kiss-limit is "real" vs. "psychological" is utterly moot. That's exactly the kind of thing you don't have to decide, ever, at all, in playing Sorcerer. If you ever find yourself using gamer-logic with phrases like, "But can she ..." (in a whiny tone), kick yourself in the nuts and move on.

Best,
Ron

[Rod Anderson]

All is clear. Thanks for the help, everyone!


Rod

[Bailywolf]

And demon limitations arn't really bad things at all.

It took me ages (and some real Actual Play) to realize it, but having a demon further limited by certain constraints on its powers can be a pretty major boon in a sorcerer's favor- demons arn't super-powers.  A demon is a character who will turn and bite you in the ass (literally or metaphorically) given half a chance- having some method outside the normal sorcerous rituals to deal with a demon is GOOD.  The downside is your enemies get the same advantage... but...  when your Vampire Butler turns on you, arn't you glad he fries in sunlight?

In the above example, it means the Demon requires the sorcerer grant it access to certain of its more powerful abilities... and if the sorcerer doesn't want the demon acting out with thise powers, he can simply refuse to allow it rather than engaging in the potential dodgy buisness of Commanding it.

-Ben

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

As a rule of thumb, whenever dealing with these kinds of "soft" limitations on demon abilities, I bring in a Power roll for the demon if it's deliberately working against them. So the fries-in-sunlight demon would get to roll its Power to see whether it avoids damage.

Roll against what, you ask? Use conflict-resolution logic and you're all set. I can't imagine a situation in which (a) a demon is working against its logistic limitations and (b) a personal conflict of some kind isn't afoot.

Best,
Ron