Rule Expansion Books

[brainwipe]

My free science fiction roleplaying game, Icar has a very simple mechanic system. It has been noted by some of my regular players that although this works well for us, there are some other rule expansions that others might find enjoyable. I am talking specifically about mechanic expansions, not settings.

So, are rule expansion books the work of evil or a good idea?

[Jack Spencer Jr]

This is the debate that drives men into the arms of.... other men.

I think this is purely a matter of YMMV. It's a matter of whether or not the rules expansions are worth putting in the core book or not. For example, I'm given to understand there are some additional rules for the new Marvel RPG in the X-Men expansion, rules that could have gone in the main book.

Of course, you are refering to a free game, so it's no big deal to have expansions. It's probably just a matter time for you to incorporate these rules into the main file. But they are optional rules, so I don't know if it'd be worth putting them in the main book.

[Matt Gwinn]

I am doing something like that with Kayfabe.  I'm putting out two rules expansions in the next couple months, but I am also including all that material in the next print run of the main rules.  

I recently asked my playtest group whether or not the additional rules were too much, or whether they were necessary at all.  One of the responses I received was that as long as the rules don't hinder the original rules everything is good.  

One person described it to me as layering.  He claimed that having layers of rules that you could add or remove without hurting the basics of the game is always a bonus.

,Matt G.

[Mike Holmes]

Hey Rob,

I'd say go for it. Especially if you're keeoing them separate at the moment, what can it hurt? Your presentation is formated such that any such new rules will just be seen as a sort of "advanced" section, I'd think.

As Jack intimates, as long as this isn't a production copy I think it's great. As soon as you start thinking publication for purchanse, however, that's when the big choice comes in.

Until then think of it as a gand playtest.

BTW, are you looking to publish for profit at some point. I've often wondered why you didn't take that step. Of available free games I'd think that yours would be amongst the most eligible for that treatment (JAGS being right there with you as well).

Mike

[brainwipe]

Thanks for the advice, Gents. I definitely see the little tidbits of extra rules as options. I like the layering idea, Matt, that puts into words the feeling I have for the new rules. I shall persue the Advanced mechanic book with my players.

Mike, thanks for the kind words about Icar. I still have no intention to publish. Icar is purely my hobby and I think its best to keep it that way. I love doing it.

From reading the numerous posts here and on RPG.net (I'm one of those who reads often but posts rarely), it's no mean task to publish and those who do it for a living often come up short. I have also noticed that a certain amount of autonomy is lost when creating a game - for something like Icar, I believe that my autonomy allows the game to keep its coherence. I'm not sure doing your hobby as a money-winning job makes it fun anymore, and it's the one hobby I have that has given me many hours of very cheap fun!

Also, I'm about to graduate with a doctorate (PhD) in Aritificial Intelligence and feel that this will provide me with a more solid career! :)

I'm thrilled that you think it is of a standard that could be published. That accolade is something that I strive for.

Rob

[Valamir]

Rob your last post confuses me mightily.

Mikes point simply means offering Icar in a format that people would pay money for (a downloadable PDF, or a POD on RPGMall, or something like that).

There is no loss of autonomy involved at all...that's sort of the whole definition of Indie Publishing (Mike wasn't suggesting you go farm it out to Atlas or something).  Nor is there any expectation of making a living at it.

I certainly have no intention of giving up my day job.

Are, you perhaps thinking of something completely different by the word "Published"?

[brainwipe]

I was indeed thinking about in-the-stores 'published'. I would also like to keep a Lucas-like control on the material, so it follows the same vision.

You have a point though, Valamir, but I still think it's probably not worth the effort. If anyone has evidence in the opposite, then I am all ears!

Rob

[Mike Holmes]

Here's a hypothetical. It would be a trivial thing to require people to pay for access to the site or even to specific portions as I'm sure you're aware. Have you considered something like that?

Given your fanbase, that's not what I'd do, but from a hypothetical would it make sense?

A real option would be to simply PDF it, and make it available through RPGHosts, POD service. That takes very little effort on your part, it makes available the product in another form, and you might profit a little from it. In any case, it's expanded coverage for the game. Other than the slight effort involved I don't see a downside to it.

Mike

[Valamir]

Takes virtually no effort.  You have 100% control over it (no one else is even involved in creation), can change the PDF you offer at will, offer free updates to existing customers.  Can promote or not promote however you like.  Can at some point go the next step and do a hard copy POD in small print runs, and through a service like RPGMall it can even wind up in stores.

It may or may not sell, but there isn't much cost or effort involved in giving it a try...and if you weren't expecting to ever get any money from it anyway, whatever you do make is pure gravy for you.  I think you might be surprised by the level of interest, however.

[brainwipe]

Thanks for the info, I shall look into it.

Making people pay for access to the site is interesting, but is a fair amount of work (I like to code everything myself). Although there are people who give best wishes, I don't think anyone else is actually playing it at the moment (except me, of course)!

As far as publishing it elsewhere, I'm a step ahead of you, Mike: I produced the first PDF version of the rules 2 months ago, all but the in-depth technology section remain to be converted.

Certainly worth consideration - I'll get my thesis finished first, though!

Once again, many thanks for the info. It is, as always, to the high standard I expect from the Forge.

[samdowning]

If you have the game up for free now, you'll have a heck of a time getting people to pop up with the cash.  We took Santa's Soldiers, a great game that was free (and not even on our site), added more coherent rules, characters, all sorts of great art, and still got the "but this was free last week" emails.

As far as rules supplements, we put out the 1PGs for a couple of years, then put out the 1PG companion with more rules for all sorts of little things, and it's doing rather well.  So as pdf's, they are very viable.

[Mike Holmes]

If you have the game up for free now, you'll have a heck of a time getting people to pop up with the cash.  We took Santa's Soldiers, a great game that was free (and not even on our site), added more coherent rules, characters, all sorts of great art, and still got the "but this was free last week" emails.

That would be from people who'd seen that it was there previously. Which only means that you were trying to sell to a very small crowd. Sell to people who've never heard of the game before, and you won't have a problem. This is a marketing issue.

I'm always amazed at how many more people pay attention to a game once it's offered for sale. It's like putting a pricetag on a game legitimizes it for many players.

Mike