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Started by Mike Holmes, May 29, 2003, 03:13:46 PM
Quote from: crucielFor example, prioritizing Explore:System may be nothing more complicated than devoting more thought to how the movement rules work (System) than what the character looks like when running (Color).
QuoteOn Congruence:All this approach is saying (in a round-about way) is that Sim/Nar Congruence and Sim/Gam Congruence is a valid single priority; and that Gam/Nar Congruence may occur, but the player is not prioritizing the Congruence, it just happened (or someone else, like the GM, engineered it to happen). I suppose it is also implying (by the way it is organized) that some level of Sim Congruence is what most players desire.
Quote from: Mike HolmesThe reason I put Challenge and Theme on the same axis is that I tend to agree that on that count you probably only consider one option or the other. Or that, at least perceptually this seems to be the case.
Quote from: Mike HolmesExcept that by the larger definition, how you determine Color is via system. How you determine Situation is via system. How you determine setting is via system. I mean, if the system is that the GM is arbiter of the setting as he ususally is, then isn't the GM creating a setting detail like a palace just a use of system? Better put, give me an example of using the system that's not also one of the other four. I mean if rolling to hit is a great example of exploring system, isn't that just altering situation as well? Or do we mean simply resolution systems, and not system overall?
QuoteI think that Fidelity might be different because exploration seems to preceed Conflict in a very real way (as it does in schematics that say that GNS comes after Exploration). Basically, Incoherence can occur at the Exloration level (Fidelity based), or it can happen in terms of where GNS is located (Conflict). This is not to say that players have to go through this process, it's saying that the foirst things that has to be considered is what's happening in the shared imagined space. And that requires the act to have some reference to Fidelity first.
Quote from: Ron EdwardsThe way I see it, if you have Character, Situation, Setting, and Color, then nothing happens. That's right, even if you have Situation. It's all frozen without System.
Quote from: ValamirRon I think the problem Mike is having is that this discussion seems to have inflated system into something that is no longer 1 of the 5, but rather above the remaining 4.
Quote from: Gordon C. LandisBut - maybe that experience has warped me, but my biggest problem in this Horseshoe 2 stuff has been I just don't see Challenge and Theme on the same scale. They exist independently, as far as I can tell. Admitedly, there is cross-influence but . . . well, everything has cross-influence, really.
QuoteI'm betting Ron would say the same thing about any of the elements of Exploration... if you have Setting, System, Situation and Color, but no Character, you have no play.
Quote from: talysmanit's Fidelity (faithfulness) to the referrant (source). that source may be a movie, tv show, book, body of myth, set of genre expectations, or setting description in a game book.
Quoteit is not Fidelity to Exploration (imagining),
Quote from: Mike HolmesLike I said, I'm not going to call it Simulationism because that would indicate by the older model that it's a type of decision by itself. ...So I'm a little stuck for terms at the moment. What I need is a term for the spectrum that goes from at one extreme ignoring the "reality" of the game completely, and on the other pays so much atttention to the in-game conventions that it almost blots out the other axis. Plausibility almost works for this one, but not quite. Internal Consistency?
Quote from: BankueiHow's this for a term? Fidelity. High Fidelity=Staying close to the plausibilty as defined by the game/setting/etc. Low Fidelity=willingness to discard or ignor it at will for other purposes?
Quote from: Emily CareWe've got one term with different definitions.