Gamism, Simulationism, and Narrativism: A brief pause....

[Nick the Nevermet]

GNS has about 2 places of value:  How you relate to others in your group GNS-wise during play, and what games help you and your group facilitate your GNS goals.  Finding out your personal GNS bent is a matter of observation in play over a period of time.  

Plus it can vary depending on who you are gaming with.  I know several people who alter the way I play when I'm around them.  One's personal GNS preferences are not a constant to build around.

[Lance D. Allen]

Polling and quizzing to find out what your GNS preferences are about as useful as asking "What's your favorite color?"

I'll agree there.. Then go further and say that asking what someone's favorite color is is extremely useful when doing things that involve color, such as buying clothes for someone. Knowing your GNS preference is much the same. If I know that I (or someone else) is strongly Sim-oriented, I'll be able to recommend games which forward simulationist goals, and run a game with simulationist exploration themes.

The only real difference is that it's a little harder to decide what your GNS preference is than to choose a favorite color. Imagine my surprise when I found out that I was not, in fact, quite so strongly narrativist as I would have thought.

[Morfedel]

Well, and who cares if it isn't useful anyway? For me, its more for fun than for any practicle purposes. :)

[Bankuei]

Hi guys,

What I am saying is that turning this thread into a "What GNS are you?" thread is pointless.  Knowing your GNS preferences, and that of your group, is cool and wonderful.  Getting a list of GNS preferences of folks from across the web, is not.  

Aside from the fact that its no more useful than knowing my favorite color, as odds are you won't be buying clothes for me anytime soon, the second is that you can't verify anyone's GNS pref's without observation or some serious details about in play examples.

What might be a more useful line of questioning, would perhaps to say, what GNS needs does TROS fulfill for you and your group?  Or perhaps, does TROS have and clashes with your goals?  What does TROS do GNS-wise that few other games do?  Stuff like that...Otherwise we might as well start a "What's your favorite Weyrth country?, What's your favorite weapon?, etc." type threads...

Chris

[Nick the Nevermet]

What might be a more useful line of questioning, would perhaps to say, what GNS needs does TROS fulfill for you and your group?  Or perhaps, does TROS have and clashes with your goals?  What does TROS do GNS-wise that few other games do?

I'll go.  TROS fits my interests very well, but I'd be selective about who I play with because of where it lands on GNS.  (among other reasons)
I agree with Ron's comment (everyone in this forum should read his review of TROS on this site) that TROS is a sim-nar hybrid.  All the talk here about realistic combat or a cohesive setting, while at the same time we have a monthly Spiritual Attribute discussion, is good circumstantial evidence toward that.  As someone who has played a LOT of gam-sim hybrid play (it's what people wanted to do undergrad), TROS is an ideal 'gateway game' for me to narrativist play.

However, I would be careful who I whip TROS out for.  One of the bad things about TROS IMHO is that it looks incoherent in some people's eyes.  Trust me, I know... I've given it to people, and not said anything about it, because I didn't want to make them look for certain things as they read.  The result is that gamists focus on the fact that combat is heavily strategic, the sims on the fact it tries to work off a kind of realism, and the narrativists love the Spiritual Attributes & the fact that ethics are represented in the mechanics.

So what oh what do you do now?  The answer is found other places on this website: Have a social contract.  The group needs to sit down and discuss what they are about to play and how they are going to play it.  If it is me, and 3 'pure types' (there are about 50 things wrong with this concept, but run with me)... well, I'm screwed.  If I have three pure types, that means all three have totally different priorities about what is fun in gaming.  Luckily, people aren't pure types.  Talking among people and figuring out what is the common ground, what everyone likes, and then going from there works wonders.  

Also, I'm having problems with the players I already know with TROS because of the specific mechanics.  One guys doesn't like lethal, strategic combat.  Another guy read spiritual attributes, made the combat about 'you're worse at fighting strangers', and decided if that is a central component, he wouldn't like the game.  I know both well enough that they read it right and really wouldn't like the game.  This isn't exactly a GNS problem, but it is related.  The guy who disliked SAs, for example, would probably never willingly play any narrative willingly.  And that's perfectly fine... it just means the way I want to play TROS wouldn't work with him.

[Ron Edwards]

Wow - Nick, that's a beautiful post.

Sorry for this relatively empty post, folks, but I just had to say that.

Best,
Ron

[Nick the Nevermet]

Thanks Ron.  Oh, and BTW... I like TROS.  My criticism of its appearances should be taken with a balanced reading, not as me blasting it.

PS - oh, and my apologies for my lack of proof-reading.  I'm not really sure what was going on in that last paragraph.