Any Swordsman on this list? SCA? etc?

[Ashton]

A larger shield (something of a reasonable size--a heater or a round), in our experience, is just mean when used to edge block and edge strike.

A fighter would have to be careful about edge blocking with metal shields though... catch the sword ege and it could start a tear in the metal that will want to keep right on tearing. It'll due worse than make your shield useless, it will make it a liability. Just my two cents though.

[Jake Norwood]

I wouldn't over estimate a swords ability to cut metal, in all honesty. Any damage done to such a shield wouldn't be enough to ruin the shield that day.

Jake

[Ashton]

I wouldn't over estimate a swords ability to cut metal, in all honesty. Any damage done to such a shield wouldn't be enough to ruin the shield that day.

Jake

I'm thinking in terms of edge of sword vs. edge of shield scenario and done over the course of a battle. Better to absorb the shock on the flat of the shield so its disbursed over a greater area, and yes while using the shield in an active as opposed to passive manner. I'm also not talking about swords that cut so much as function like flat hammers with a small point of force.

Admittedly I haven't attacked my own shield in quite this way to test whether the metal would split, but then I like my shield.

[Lance D. Allen]

You probably also like your sword. I imagine that would put some serious nicks in the blade that you'd have to work out.

[Jake Norwood]

Do we want to war over what was done historically? Or over semantics?

Fact: Active edge blocking with the shield was a common tactic.

Fact: Active deflection using the flat and boss of the shield was a common tactic.

Fact: You want to damage your opponent's blade. If it did cut in any significant way, then the sword would be momentarily lodged in your shield, giving you a prime window of opportunity. Shields are cheap.

As for hammers...I'm going to edge block and deflect out against something like that before receiving anything on the flat of my shield! Yikes! Talk about broken limbs...

Likewise, you're assuming that an edge-block would meet the sword edge-on. Given many circumstances, that's unlikely.

Jake

[Krammer]

I've been meaning to get into heavy weapon's fighting, but I dont know where to go. Does anybody know any good places to get started in the Salt Lake City, Utah area, or even in Davis County?

[Lance D. Allen]

Jake himself lives in Provo, which I'm told is rather near Salt Lake City. I'm sure he could give you some information on local trainers.

[Jake Norwood]

Krammer-

Email me at arma@theriddleofsteel.net and I'll hook you up with the SLC study group.

Jake

[Ashton]

Likewise, you're assuming that an edge-block would meet the sword edge-on. Given many circumstances, that's unlikely.

Jake

You are right I was assuming this, and I was not trying to argue semantics but rather what might be more effective. My apologies then. Personally, its not easy for me to have this kind of debate without physically demonstrating what I mean. Words fail in certain respects.

I'm also thinking in terms of long-term mass combat not one on one duels. Anything where the blade lodged in the shield would also be bad for me, wouldn't it? It would restrict my mobility and give the allies of whomever I was fighting a few precious seconds to insure that they were my last.
Sure shields are cheap, but I would not want to take the time to get rid of my shield while I've got four more people to fight.

Oh and some existing manuals do cover shield work... unfortunately they are all rapier based.

[Jake Norwood]

Existing manuals do not cover the standard medieval sheild. Any shield used in rapier work is a buckler or potentially a targe, but not a "standard" round, kite, or heater shield.

Should a blade get lodged in your shield, it would easily be withdrawn...it just buys you that needed half second to strike back.

I think that you over estimate the amount of damage that a shield would sustain when used in this way. I'm sure of it, in fact.

Anyway, I don't want this to get unpleasant or immature...and I'm grouchy and I'm finding myself prone to do that. What are we really debating at this point, anyway? Let's get back to TROS...

Jake