Concept to Actual Play

[Ian O'Rourke]

This has all been very useful, in that it may actually have allowed me to see the problem so to speak.

I agree with all that has been said, the narrative approach is the way to go. It is the way I think and the players also work this way. The current Buffy campaign might not be totally designed on narrative principles as proposed here (relationship maps, etc), but the players certainly play it that way. I don't have a problem with the players making narrativism focused choices, and working in author stance, though only a few actively persue director stance.

So, what is my problem, may be it is not the generation of relationship maps, and the core of the drama, the layered conflicts (after all, I work well in this capacity as a 'mine of ideas' for the Buffy DM) but some sort of fear or nervousness of trusting that to be enough to go to actual play?

That could be it, having read these posts and thought about it. You see none of the above is unfamiliar to me, I'm not being taught anything new, but I've never gone to actual play with a game/campaign (whatever) built on those principles 100%.

Interesting. Very interesting.

Regrettably I am away this weekend, and busy in the early part of the week -  but maybe I should try and work up this premise/idea, see where it goes and then move from there.

How far would I get with prepping the game on relationship map principles without knowing the characters? Can I prep and then re-jig based on characters created and player ideas? It's just I may want it all clearer as a 'set-up' in my head before pitching to the players.

[jdagna]

So, what is my problem, may be it is not the generation of relationship maps, and the core of the drama, the layered conflicts (after all, I work well in this capacity as a 'mine of ideas' for the Buffy DM) but some sort of fear or nervousness of trusting that to be enough to go to actual play?

How far would I get with prepping the game on relationship map principles without knowing the characters? Can I prep and then re-jig based on characters created and player ideas? It's just I may want it all clearer as a 'set-up' in my head before pitching to the players.

I snipped out some parts of your post.

Self-doubt is probably a big factor.  I remember I hit a point after playing WFRP for about seven years where I realized everything had been done before.  I basically froze up, because I couldn't think of anything new.  It took me a while to realize that to the players, even my old ideas seemed new if I made a few changes and that they would still have a lot of fun.  You're probably feeling the same basic fear for a different reason.  

How far you can get with your relationship map before knowing the PCs probably depends on you and the role you want them to play.  My general method is to start off with a basic idea (essentially what you've given us in your example), and then fill in the details once I have the characters.

Also, it might be worth pointing out that relationship maps or storymaps aren't strictly a Narrativist technique.  They'll work in Gamist or Simulationist play.  The key will be what the story hinges upon.  Narr play from your idea will involve complex moral decisions (as others have described better than I could).  Gamist play would focus on overcoming the challenge presented by the coup.  Simulationist play might vary a little, but it could certainly be used to explore the political elements of the setting or the characters themselves as they react to upheaval.  The same seed and technique works for each mode, but they produce different results.  For that matter, even kickers aren't strictly Narrativist.

[Marco]

Well ...

A lot that's good has already been said. So I'll say some other stuff (you can decide if it hasn't been said or isn't good or both):

The moral conflict isn't necessary--people can get behind saving the day just fine. It's not bad--but the "hey, it's missing" vibe isn't ... I mean ... y'know, *Star Wars*?

My advice would be to flesh out some of the world and hand the PC's some data to start with. You don't have to keep it there--and you certainly don't have to map out *everything* or even most of it--but a few interesting places to check out can also get things going.

Exploration of Situation can also link closely to exploration of setting. I think if I were presented with that situation, I'd ask which allies/helpful people I knew I could round up. If I was told to make 'em up fine. If I was told about the wizard with a ton of golems who might or might not help--but would be really good if he did ... hey, cool!

-Marco