Book Layout Poll

[eruditus]

I am in the process of developing a world sourcebook for an existing system.

I would like the opinion of a bunch of folks...

Here is the scenario: you are making a character for a game.  You will already need the rulebook to make the character but there will be a ton of character development info in the sourcebook.  Character creation is very region specific and going between regions during character creation is possible but not probable.  The book will have an exaustive index and will most likely have several reference charts combining pieces from each region (weapons, skills, spells, careers, etc).

So which would you rather and why?

Option A:
The book laid out by mechanics.  thus the chapters would probably be  geography, history, skills, weapons, spells

or

Option B:
The book laid out by region thus the geography, history, skills, weapons and spells of each region would be together.

Remember that the book will be well indexed so if your looking for a specific martial art manuever and you don't know what region its in you can find it in the index (most likely under its name and under martial arts)

thanks in advance for your input

[Mike Holmes]

Both. I'd have references in the regional sections to what was available, that directed the player to the page where the ability or whatever existed in a section on those, with all the pertinent rules.

But this assumes certain things about your design that may not be true. I'd really have to know more about it to make that judgement. For example, are players challenged to make the best character possible by the ruleset? Or are they just trying to make the characters fit into the setting well? If the focus is on the latter, then you don't need the mechanics in the section on the region. If the former, then you might want to go with option A so that players can see thier options in the context of the others that are available.

So, what else can you tell us about the game?

And welcome. :-)
Mike

[eruditus]

Both. I'd have references in the regional sections to what was available, that directed the player to the page where the ability or whatever existed in a section on those, with all the pertinent rules.

Mike

That is certainly a good perspective.  So, to be clear, have it be separated out by mechanics but have regional sections that cover the regional bits with page references to the other sections?

[eruditus]

For example, are players challenged to make the best character possible by the ruleset? Or are they just trying to make the characters fit into the setting well? Mike

personally its more important to me as the designer that the players make characters that fit well into the setting.  

thanks for the snappy response :)

[Valamir]

I would cast a heavy vote for regional organization.
Pendragon organizes by mechanic...here's the chapter on lands, heres the chapter on ethnicities, here's the chapter on....

Its my least favorite part of the game.  Making a character requires an inhuman amount of page flipping.

My preference would be open a section, create character from start to finish page by page in that section.  For a different character, open a different section, but still go page by page in that section.  Tables and lists or other information common to all sections should be in a clearly marked easy to flip to appendix.

[Mike Holmes]

Given what you've said, yes, I'd have the regional sections list things like the weapons available in that regoin, but then have a single page with all the weapons (no reference needed, neccessarily here). For Spells, I'd have the spells available in that regoin listed, with references to the page numbers where the descriptions can be found.

This way, a player making the character can find out what he needs just be looking at the region. He sees, "fireball", and just takes it on what it sounds like. He doesn't need to know the mechanics just yet. Later, when he's done selecting things, he can go to the Spell section and look up all the stuff on all his spells if he wants.

Mike

[eruditus]

I have also gotten another perspective from another group i have posted this question to:

Some said that they would pick layout by region UNLESS there is a lot of overlap.  The more repeated material there would be the better a consistant mechanical layout would come out.

To answer this question i feel that although there are significant cultural ideals throughout the realm in question there are also significant differences between the areas.  I believe the differences are enough to outweigh the similarities.  I hardily believe that when adventuring in a particular region that one would spend all their time among a limited number of pages if seperated by region.  

So in manuevering through the book do we think that the reader should have exposure to all of the regions as they look for information about specific regions, or should sections be read as characters are made and as the group travels throughout the realm?  (setting aside those of us who read something cover to cover)

:)

[Mike Holmes]

So in manuevering through the book do we think that the reader should have exposure to all of the regions as they look for information about specific regions, or should sections be read as characters are made and as the group travels throughout the realm? (setting aside those of us who read something cover to cover)

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Can you describe what the outcome layout options would look like?

Mike

[Hardpoint]

What I'm doing with my game is to lay out the setting in the first part of the book, then follow up with all the character creation stuff in one place. Since it sounds like you and I approach the character thing similarly (ie characters fit the campaign world), I think my method might be of interest to you.

- First a race is chosen and stats are generated.
- Said race is available in certain Nations, so you locate the section on that Nation which will give you what skill options and Profession choices are available.
- Then social class is determined for purposes of establishing background of where your hero came from.
- Then skills are selected from those you get as per your social standing and then ones from the Profession you chose to start the game as.

Hope that model helps.

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

The only thing I see wrong by doing to by region is that you may have to repeat a lot of things (as that other group mentioned).  It would get very, very boring to have to read the same mechanics over and over.  At what point during character creation does region become important? Do you have things that are constant such as race, class, stats, base skills, movement, feats/background options, and so on?  If so, you could get all of them out of the way first, and then treat Region as just another step in character creation.

Peace,

-Troy

[Daniel Solis]

If so, you could get all of them out of the way first, and then treat Region as just another step in character creation.

I'd have something like a character creation section detailing all the steps prior to the point where having to choose a region would become important. When character creation reaches the end of the "universal" stage, have a list of page references formatted: "If you're character is from X, continue character creation from page Y. If your character is from A, continue from page B."

There would be a chapter or section exclusively devoted to character creation, then region-chapters for the setting, history and other information about individual areas. At the end of those region-chapters would be their respective character creation information.

[samdowning]

Island Nations is separated by region, and each character creation section happens at the end of the regional information.  Of course, it's not nearly as complicated as the one you describe here (character creation is all on one page), but I think regional suits the style better.  And as Mike said, just put in which skills, weapons, spells, etc. you want to have in the region, then have it cross-referenced in the book with which page the full description of each item is on, to avoid duplication.  Getting more complicated than that might throw folks off.

[eruditus]

Keep in mind that character creation is already laid out in the home system so all I am doing is increasing the options and demarkating them to certain regions.

Ultimatley I am hearing mixed results :)  Which is, of course, expected.  And this discussion, which I have posted in several places, has been largely split down the middle.  I guess that just means I can organize it as I see fit and there is no particular popular layout (at least among my target audience :)

As such the theme I have been seeing is that if there is a lot of cross regional information (stuff that would be repeated region to region) then it should definately be seperated by mechanic (skills, spells, weapons, etc).  However, if there is not a lot of overlap then it doesn't matter as much and a completely regional perspective would work just fine.

I guess that just means I will have to set everything out and determine that before committing to a layout.

Thanks all.  You have really been a big help.

[simon_hibbs]

I vote half-and-half. Have the character generation sequence and rules in one place, along with comprehensive skill, weapon and spell descriptions. Then have a section (preferably a 2-page spread, like HeroQuest) for each culture giving skill, weapon and spell lists for that region.

This should minimise reproduction of material, and allow you to easily add supplements for new regions, cultures, races, etc. I would not consider putting unique skills, weapons and spells in the regional sections. It just makes it harder when it comes to refering to things during play.

It's ok for supplements because there should only be a tiny ammount of unique info in the supplements you need to check up on, and since they are supplements they'll be seperate books and so you can have the relevent sections of the main book and the supplement open side by side, as when looking up spells for example. For the main book with all the core cultures and regions, put all the stats together for easy reference though.


Simon Hibbs

[Jeph]

My personal preferance for such a book would be a chapter for each region, with subsections for geography, culture, history, skills, spells, etc etc etc. Sort of like what Wizards did with the Rokugan section of Oriental Adventures, but more expansive. Sort of like...

Puffin Land

Blah blah blah this is the land of the puffins.

Culture

The citizens of Puffin Land worship the High Puffin, and bring him tributes of green eggs and ham. They are extremely honest and open, but their attitude changes completely when outsiders question about the Super Secret Cult of the Diamond Puffin.

History

The Puffinlanders lived happily until 1482 CLQ, when the Niffup the Anti-Puffin invaded with his army from the south. However, in 2841 CLQ they drove the horde of Anti-Puffins back to their heathen home.

Geography

A lot like Canada. Cold. Tundra. Stuff.

Spells

Summon Puffin
Puffin Points: 4
Effect: Summons a puffin

Summon Lots of Puffins
Puffin Points: 3, +3/puffin past the first
Efect: Summons a whole bunch of puffins.

Exploding Puffin
Puffin Points: 6
Effect: Target puffin within 40 feet flies towards the selected area and explodes, dealing 4d7+?13 damage to all within a 13 inch radius.

And stuff.