Masterwork weapons

[Lance D. Allen]

Another point to consider.. A sword with those bonuses is probably especially balanced and shaped for a given character. I would call it a rule of thumb that anything with a bonus would have to be customized. If it's used by anyone other than the character who commissioned it, then they'll take a penalty, rather than a bonus. Exception to the rule might be someone with similar stats who was either trained by the character in question, or trained with them, but in either case the bonus would be at least one less than for the character using it, if they get a bonus at all.

[Salamander]

Another point to consider.. A sword with those bonuses is probably especially balanced and shaped for a given character. I would call it a rule of thumb that anything with a bonus would have to be customized.

I have read from several sources that the fact a weapon is of exceptional quality does not really demand it be made for a specific person in all his particular traits and foibles. An excellent blade will be an excellent blade for any who wield it. I get this from people who have held and used antique weapons as well as modern day reproductions of the same weapons. Now, each such quality weapon would be made as a custom piece, agreed, but any body who picked it up would enjoy the benefits of such a superbly made weapon. The trouble is finding a swordsmith, the price and the month or so it would take to make it. Of course, are you willing to loose a 30 gold piece weapon on the battle field? If you do its at least another month and 30gp to get a replacement...

[Salamander]

Which weapons would it be possible to get as masterpieces? All of them? Just swords? I have so far assumed that only the weapons of rich in any given culture would be available as masterpieces, since they're the only ones with a big enough purse. It felt silly that anyone spend decades to learn how to make spears if only peasants would buy them.
Is this a good assumption?
So far I've only allowed for swords and poleaxes to be of higher quality. Are there any other weapons that might be done as masterpieces in a Mainlund/Europe-like society?

You know, that is an excellent point! I think that most "Chivalric Weapons", as Spartan so aptly annointed them, would be available in Masterwork versions. For example; most swords, as well as pogniards, stilletos, main gauche, axes, maces, warhammers, flails and pole axes. Also most metal armours would have the option I think.

The more common field weapons like spears and farm implements in addition to disposable arms like lances, quarrels, shot, arrows and javelin would not have this option, unless the smith was a bit nutso, then the question would be, do you really trust this guy's work?

[Jaeger]

As far as PC's go... if a character is a landed or landless noble I'll let him buy whatever masterwork weapons he wants at PC creation.

 However some things on this thread have made me rethink what can be a masterwork weapon... it must be a weapon that with an artists touch can be made better than an already well made example of one.

 I would say most all bladed weapons and perhaps even "war axes" made explicitly for personal combat, not the regular kind though.

 However "mass weapons" I have rethought. Maces, warhammers, flails and pole axes, quarterstaffs rely on thier weight to inflict damage. And once you already have a well made sample, how much better can it possibly get??? It's a mass weapon. (Whereas it is said by those who have handled them there is a difference between a munitions grade sword used by the rank and file and a one-off weapon made by a master craftsman.)

I'm just wanting to put a stop to people running around with masterclass quarterstaffs. It's a bloody quarterstaff! it can't get much better.

I'd say that I'd let most any weapon get a +1 to damage just because there are things one can do to make it hurt more (extra barbs, extra pull on a bow, etc...), but I'd only allow handeling bonuses like -1 ATN/DTN to weapons where an artist could make a noticable difference.

 Oh and if you allow one player to have a masterclass weapon at chargen, you better be prepared to let all your players have one then too, or you'll never hear the end of it.

[Lance D. Allen]

My opinion is this: If someone is willing to pay a sufficient price for it, the smith would be "nutso" not to do it. Or have personal issues aside from purely financial and labor concerns.

Also, it might be a common thing to say that if it's made by a given smith, it's automatically a fine weapon.. His apprentices make the normal stuff. But to actually get the aforementioned master smith to even consider taking your commission could be an adventure in and of itself.

Master Inchkeith, anyone?

[Mike Holmes]

My opinion is this: If someone is willing to pay a sufficient price for it, the smith would be "nutso" not to do it.

Certainly. But how often does someone with enough money have the skill for a peasant weapon? I mean, I assume that if they have enough money to pay for a masterwork weapon, that they'd also have been trained in a chivalric sort of weapon.

Of course that leaves PCs who will start as peasants and end up with king's ransoms somehow, and will approach a smith to do a job. The smith, OTOH, not having a market for such a skill, there never being a demand for it, will not have developed the skill to make masterwork farm implements. This doesn't mean he won't take the PCs money and try...but I'd say that it would be a shot in the dark. This would be obviously the case, so most people wouldn't bother to ask, I'd think.

It's like asking a french chef to make a masterwork cheeseburger. It's probably possible, but who would ask for such a thing? This is not to say that it might not be a relatively good cheeseburger given the chef's general ability. But the ability to make the perfect filet mignon (something people ask for) is something that he'll have trained for, something beyond the normal meal.

Mike

[toli]

In terms of rarity, I would make a distinction between x5 (gp) and x10 weapons.  I would allow x5 weapons to be available in any reasonable circumstance, although there might be a wait.  For example, any one in a city could buy a x5 weapon, but they would be hard to comeby in a village or small town.  Regular quality weapons might be scarce in these situations.  

I would make x10 gp weapons rare and more individual.

In the end, I would let PCs get what they want (more or less) and just adjust the NPCs.

NT

[Dan Sellars]

Wow I've started quite a discussion here! :-) and it looks good stuff.

What we eventually decided (myself an the Seneschal) is pretty much as in the book (now I've read it).  So it cost 10gc (-1 Swing ATN)and is linked to an SA as well.

Drive: to descover the truth behind his farters death (and avenge the murder, assuming it was)  

The Longsword belonged to his father who was a trusted retainer for a lord.  His father went missing and was months later found dead apparently killed by his own sword.  

My character has now taken up the task of first finding out what happend and then doing something about it.  I see it as kind of like the search fior the six fingered man but when Inago was just starting out in is quest rather than already a master.  It may take 10 years to be in the position to change the drive to revenge.  (Off topic rambe sorry, just finished the first session)

Dan.

[Ashton]

Isn't limiting weapons of quality to "chivalric" weapons cutting out a huge segment of the world of Weyrth (or whatever alternate earth that you ould like to play with)? Now if you are defining it by social class, that's a different matter, but I could see where someone could use a minor gift for a -1 ATN or -1DTN or a major gift for a -1 ATN and -1DTN. This frees up much needed funds for important things... like food.

On a related tangent, have any seneschals been so depraved as to deny characters of their usual weapons and then only make inferior weapons (say a -1 to ATN or DTN or both) available?

[prophet118]

i think the point to say, was that not many people would care, or want to have a "masterwork" pike

[Ashton]

I realize that. My arguement was more that using the term chivalric would remove the possibility of exceptional scimitars, sabers, rapiers, or the rare rock dwarf weapon that makes it into human hands.

[kenjib]

i think the point to say, was that not many people would care, or want to have a "masterwork" pike

Dragonslayer.  ;)

[prophet118]

well, they were probably just using that term to classify a group of weapons.... although its the first i have heard "Chivalric" in reference to a group of weapons........


not that anything during the chivalrous age.. was very chivalrous

[prophet118]

i think the point to say, was that not many people would care, or want to have a "masterwork" pike

Dragonslayer.  ;)

that wasnt a pike.. that was a longspear.. there is surprisingly a difference

[Spartan]

.... although its the first i have heard "Chivalric" in reference to a group of weapons........

It's a Hârn reference, meaning weapons that only the nobility (and by extension, their retainers) are entitled to bear.  They are the weapons most associated with Hârnic knighthood (lance, longsword, mace, etc).  In a "western" society, those are the type of weapons that are more likely to be enchanted or of high quality.  It's a handy enough term, at any rate.  Other cultures would have different favoured weapons, of course.  I doubt there would be too many enchanted glaives or peasant pitchforks, though.  

That being said, a mage might enchant less conspicuous weapons for his own use, which of course can be found by the intrepid adventurer, hopefully not still in the hands of said sorcerer. ;)

I'm holding out for an enchanted grainflail, personally. :p

-Mark