Greg Costikyan's list of 300 Games

[John Kim]

Numbers added vs a variable target number goes back to Traveller, I'm guessing it's the specific skill+stat thing, which in a broader sense is also a big influence on the Vampire et al.

Well, there's always precursors to everything.  I'm not saying that AM was the only game to ever use addition instead of roll-under -- but it was influential in setting this as a standard.  While it was additive in a sense, Traveller didn't have an explicit concept of target number as difficulty.  For example, in combat, you must always roll an 8+ on 2d6.  Skill, range, weapon, etc. were all lumped together as die roll modifiers (DMs).  There wasn't any generalized skill roll mechanic: just places where it would say "Roll 10+ to do this."  and skill would sometimes be a modifier.  

While it was additive, very few games imitated Traveller's way of doing things in the 1977-1987 period.  However, post-1987 lots of games took up an explicit universal mechanic of attribute + skill + a die roll , with the total then being compared with a difficulty number for the task.  Oh, I should note that this mechanic includes the option of mix-and-match of attribute and skill (i.e. Guile + Com to tell a lie, Guile + Per to detect a lie).

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Back to the original question:

I think he included Shadowrun for several reasons:

1. It was one of the very first games with metaplot. Whether you like metaplot or not, that's an innovation - a changing setting.

2. The sci-fi/fantasy mix isn't unique, but it is the most popular of the genre. (Well, argubly. There is Rifts.)

3. Depending on what edition you play, it's actually a really good game. I was amazingly shocked. I played it a few times in high school and thought it was absolute balls. I re-played it recently, though - what I think was second edition - and it was a masterpiece of fun. It was highly Gamist in play, as you'd expect, but the resource allocation of the pool system (especially the Combat Pool) was intricate and actually lent itself to some dramatic moments.

[Cemendur]

If I have any conception of GNS, then Shadowrun is GNS incoherent. I have played with three different groups of people and had three very different games. The first game was about 6 years ago, I was 19.

GAME #1 Either 2nd or 3rd Ed

Rev. Illuminatus Mindfreak (Human Street Mage- Cemendur)- Favored activity is mindfreak (Freaking the Mundanes) I played this as a Crowley-influenced Discordian Mage. Grew up lower-upper class son of a corporate board member. Has a wealth of obscure magick books. The father, mother and younger sister was killed in the midst of an attempted whistle blowing. The Rev. escaped, lived with a Magician tutor for a while before escaping another assassination attempted that left the mentor dead.

Brett (Human Rigger- Brett)- Played as an Avatar. Rebel Northern Confederate without the racism (we all have seeming contradictions). Libertarian capitalist. Anti-corp. Mechanic-Rigger-Mercenary.

GM (James) a strict actor-stance, simulationist GM, which I generally love in RPG, but not in this instance.

This game played out as a series of mercenary missions with one Mr. Johnson who obviously was going to set us up. We went for the bait anyway. A fun time except for the horrid die mechanics. It took a 1/2hr to 1 1/2hrs to complete 3-5 seconds of actual game time. I found this daunting.

Game #2 2nd and 3rd edition mixed with house rules

Cemendur Rhana (Earthservant the Wanderer; Pinkskin Shaman/Monkeywrencher- Cemendur)- Started the game before the shaman ceremony. A megacorp Synthsoy producer was dumping toxic waste on tribal lands. Destoyed the factory as "questing mission", followed by a vision quest. I don't remember the totem spirit. Other totem spirits appeared to the character attempting to "convert" the character. Created spells to mimic some of the cyberwear. Eats organic food or at least real food, a very expensive luxury. No cyberwear or biowear.

"Big" Dick McGee (Troll Cagefighter/Pornstar/Revolutionary- Scott) - Background as a punk "gang"/crew leader. Fan and collector of rare underground Troll Thrashcore music. Accidental pornstar. Became NW champion cagefighter. This included a lot of interesting side intrigue where the other players won a series of bets, a final confrontation with the owner where we won the cagematch court. Later we sold it back to them. In one encounter, he was running from the fuzz or rent-a-cops and hid in a dumpster. A homeless person, dumpsterdiving in it asked, "Aren't You Big Dick ****arenfntnfgee**" "Shut up!" which ran into an ongoing gag, esp. in moments of intense danger.

Spidy (Don't remember his name, but a Spider-Gimmicked Virtual Adept- Sean) NPC with a mysterious past and mysterious face.

GM- (Sean) Very flexible with the play style and interests of the players.

Other characters- Short roles for couch-surfing friends who made interesting short-lived/used NPCs.

Started off as a #1 with mercenary shadowruns with very boring fight scenes. Developed into Actor-Stance, Author/Director/Producer-Stance (I don't remember the difference) Fortuneless Narrativist-Gamist play. The development of Relationship Mechanics in the game text, although simple, lead to further exploration of character-made NPCs and scenery. For instance, the players wanted a speak-easy, Kroptkin's, with back rooms with White Noise generators, a revolutionary hangout. We also contributed to details in a Strip Club and an Industrial Club. The definition of anarchism changed to reflect the real political philosophy and was interspersed with other libertarian movements. We used no plot or city sourcebooks. This became a revolutionary vs. corporation (terrorist vs counterterrorist; freedom fighter vs. terrorist) game.

This was probably the best play I have ever seen. The two other prominent players and the GM still reflect back on it as a prime game.

GAME #3 2nd and 3rd edition

Same Characters as #2, different GM. Spidy is gone.

This game followed the traditional rules. We decided to give them a go at it with the GM's insistence. Long very boring fight scenes. Very obvious Mr. Johnson is going to turn on us plot device. We went for it anyway, because we weren't taking any of the other very obvious plot devices.

This is an Illusionist GM. The game can be interesting if he has modules,  we take the bait, and the battle mechanics are ignored.

Analysis: Innovative in Relationship Mechanics. Would be nice with Personality Mechanics. A back step in dice mechanics and overall fighting rules. Hinting at Author/Director/Producer stances incorporated into an overall framework of Actor Stance. The early access to the Astral Realm was fun, but too powerful too early. I also enjoyed the template system. It approaches a point-based system, without the generic allotment that games like GURPS have.

[adamsmith]

I'm surprised Pendragon didn't make it in. Still, for my money, the best example of genre emulation ever published.

[ross_winn]

Numbers added vs a variable target number goes back to Traveller, I'm guessing it's the specific skill+stat thing, which in a broader sense is also a big influence on the Vampire et al.

I believe Mekton II beat SR with this by two or three years, IIRC.