Tea Leaves

[Jason L Blair]

Tea Leaves is a little game I'm currently working on that actually has me quite intrigued. It's a light-hearted game about witches through the ages taking more from from superstition, folk lore, and kitchen magic than "WitchCraft" and leaving behind most of the nastiness (it's not an overly serious game). The parts of it I've written have been coming in spurts but unlike most other games I design, the tidbits actually seem to fit together without the application of a sledge. The one sticking point I have is when it comes to the mechanic. I know the basic elements that make up a character and even how some correlate but the idea of using dice for the game turns me off. My thought is to use Tarot cards or something appropriately gypsy/wiccan/pagan-ish. So... I'm looking for alternate ways to use cards in a game. Any ideas?

For another game I'm working on, I use them in a very standard manner (as in common image translation, arrangement, etc) but for Tea Leaves, I'm thinking of splitting the deck in two (Major and Minor arcana) and dealing out the Major to the players (X number of cards each, actions can warrant another draw from the Major pile) and then using the Minor as a standard scene resolver (whose mandate can be overridden by any played Major cards).

This can also be converted to use a standard deck of cards (for the randomizer) and dice (create a Major table and have the players keep track of whose favor they currently hold) so people don't have to drop at least $15 on a Tarot deck.

A character's stats are comprised of such things as "Intuition," "Patience," and "Determination" (which are used in casting spells). Some characters will use a spell list (most witches have a standard repository of spells) but can create magik effects on the fly as well. What a character is attempting is filtered through their "Motivation" (why they got into magik in the first place [tradition, power, knowledge, etc] though I may simplify it into Benign and Sinister) so when they attempt to do something counter to their Motivation, it's harder for them to pull off. The characters also have Knacks that are odd little things the witch is good at (Mechanical Know-How, Weathersense, etc.).

So, any ideas/suggestions as far as the actual use of the cards? Any new tricks on the relationship of value and suit?

[Bankuei]

  I'm not familar enough with the Tarot to give ideas based on that, but on a normal deck of cards, you could go for a suit/magic type relation:  Diamonds(cash, material substance), Clubs(force, kinetic energy), Hearts(emotions, affect people), Spades("mean/sinister" magic, turning folks to toads, etc.).  If you use the Tarot, you might want to think along the same lines with cups, wands, swords, and penacles.

Bankuei

[Mike Holmes]

I like Kuei's idea, but in my inimitable fashion I would make it more complicated. For each of the categories listed, there is a Suit that is prime for that sort of magic, one that is Left of that Magic, one that is Right of that Magic, and one that is opposite.

Hmmm.

Cups, wands, swords, and pentacles. Is this the classic Tarot? Not real familiar. These probably already have very important symbolic meanings, but I'll just make up my own for an example.

Cups - bounty, healing, land
Wands - enchanting things and people
Swords - violent magic
Pentacles - summoning animals, fae, imps and worse.

-------Cups-------
---............---
Wands........Pentacles
---............---
------Swords------

So Wands is left of Cups, Pentacles is right of Cups, and Swords opposes cups. Lets say I cast a spell to heal a friend's gout. I need a 5 to succeed (gout is only middling serious). Consider possible draws. There are eight, combinations of suits and achieving (or missing) the target number.

3 of Cups. Fail/Prime. Partial Success. Draw again and the player may rotate the suit of the draw by one to the left or right by paying the Earth.
6 of Cups. Success/Prime. Complete Success.
3 of Wands. Fail/Left. Failure.
6 of Wands. Success/Left. Success, but the witch must pay the Moon.
3 of Pentacles. Fail/Right. Failure.
6 of Pentacles. Success/Right. Success, but the witch must pay the Sun.
3 of Swords. Fail/Opposed. Reverse Spell! The gout expands and takes the leg! (GMs option)
6 of Swords. Success/Opposed. Failure, and no more spells today!

Payment to the Earth is a sacrifice of something small and personal or a plant (seeds, pendant). Payment to the moon is a sacrifice of something of beauty (jewels, art). Payment to the sun is a sacrifice of something of power (money, blood). In either case, the Witch cannot cast a spell again until something is sacrificed.

This would work best with a "skill reduces target number" system.

Mike

[Jason L Blair]

Oooh, I totally dig the payment idea. Hm... got ideas running 'round the old noggin now.

'Course, since this is meant to be light-hearted, the sacrifice obviously wouldn't be animal but perhaps they have to fast, burn a precious item...


Hmm...

[Mike Holmes]

That was the idea, keep it kinda light. Even a blood payment to the Sun could just be a pinprick and a few drops depending on the spell. OTOH, if the witch was tempted to use her powers for something truely pootent and sinister, the elements just might demand something large in return.

Perhaps this is why witches don't brew poisons to kill the entire town. They might be required to pay their firstborn or something. :smile:

BTW, the other idea I had was to somehow align the cards with phases of the moon or astrological signs, etc.

Mike

[Bankuei]

  From the little("a little knowledge is dangerous") that I remember from Tarot, the symbolic coorelations are: Swords-danger, Cups-love/wealth, Wands(They really look like staves)-force, strength, and Penacles-mind, magic.  Of course, I could be totally off, and you'd want to research it before going any direction.
 On a totally different idea, you may wish to make the "sacrifice" mechanic using colored beads, stones, etc. as "gems".  Different colors can represent different things, and may enhance/hinder certain effects.  Or if you were seeking a randomizer, a leather or cloth bag full of them, where you draw out a certain number(colors determining effect) could be cool too.

Bankuei

[333Chronzon]

Tarot:

I know the Qabalistic Tarot - Crowley's version - pretty well.  I don't know if this version is appropriate for your uses, but here goes.

The Major Arcana represent 'large scale' holistic forces, *archetypes* in the Jungian sense as well as forces or manifestation of 'universal' forces.  As such they have a complex 'matrix' of images/concepts drawn from interrelationships between those sephiroth that they are positioned between on the "Tree of Life."
 
The specifics aren't really important here, the gist of the thing is the 'global' effect that each has.  In the case of a Tarot reading spread for example, the cards which are revelaed indicate the 'strongest' most infulential forces acting at the time of the reading.  This is similar in principle to establishing the postions of the Zodiac Signs and Planets, etc. in an astrological chart.  In fact the Major Arcana are usually attributed to particular Zodical signs and cobinations of signs.

Think Big scale forces, like Gravity big.

The Minor arcana are divided into 4 suits:

Wands = Fire
Cups = Water
Swords = Air
Panticles/Disks = Earth

Each of these represent a letter in the Name of God -  the "Tetragramaton": Yod He Vau He(final)

The 4 'Royal' cards for each suit represent *combinations* of elements and thus more particular people or situations of definite qualities drawn from the combination of elements.  Each catagory has a set element, also orgainized according to the same sceme as above

King: Fire

Queen: Water

Prince: Air

Princess: Earth

So, for example

King of Wands = Fire of Fire

Queen of Wands = Water of Fire

Prince of Wands = Air of Fire

Princess of Wands = Earth of Fire

The Number cards each follow the numeration of the Qabala( 1-10) and each represent the state of that element in it's decent from 'purity' (1-2-3) into the world of 'matter' and actual manifestation (4-10).  Or in reverse order the *ascent* of the 'enlightened consciousness' from the world of matter into 'perfection.'

Not wanting to write a book here :smile:, I'll leave it cryptically enough right there.

I hope you find some of this info useful

Scott B. (Djt'Heutii)
 

[kwill]

system

perhaps two versions of the system, one for tarot, one for regular cards, with face cards standing in for the major arcana? obviously the problem here is that it would be almost impossible to balance the probabilities

perhaps a half-way solution would be for a group a regular deck with major "tokens" that can be bought/made seperately (or a group could use a regular tarot deck, the Minors without the pages and the Majors in a seperate pile/whatever)

...this would favour using the deck/Minors as a Fortune randomiser, and the tokens/Majors as Karma (perhaps the players must select a certain number of Majors each, but they're limited in that they're drawing from a common pool; eg only one person can have The Sun, The Fool or whatever -- this enforces diversity, yay!)

...and you can bring the Pages in as some setting element (ie, explain why they are missing)

setting

there are so many odd little mythologies that you can play with here that I'm not sure seperating out the system to each one is feasible; how about this is instead goverened by in-game effects (eg, phase of moon, performing a particular rite) and Majors (eg, playing The Moon) instead?

I can just imagine running a party of little old grannies out to save the world :smile:

[kwill]

I remember finding a pretty decent site relating to the tarot, but it the link escapes me, so I headed off to google

anyone interested in a refresher (or fresher) course, could do worse than http://lonestar.texas.net/~r3winter/tarotfaq.html">The alt.tarot FAQ

unforunately it doesn't go into meanings, which is what most people seem to be wondering about, the most legible pages I've found is are an AOL http://members.aol.com/Yeep/tarot.htm">Quick Guide and a http://lightage.com/colman-smith/cs_txt.txt">Divinatory Text [txt] related to a dodgy rendition of the Rider-Waite

too much new age gobbledygook and not enough content, otherwise :sad:

[Ron Edwards]

Jason,

This is responding more to your first post rather than to the replies.

I suggest looking at an early 90s game called "Psychosis: Ship of Fools," which our group tried out a while ago. The Tarot card mechanic impressed us quite a bit, although certain elements of its use were specific to the setting and point of that game. We all agreed that with a little tweaking it would be an excellent general-use mechanic.

Um, given a recent thread, I suppose I should affirm that I'm NOT proposing that anyone rip off another game's system, but rather be open to the good influences of good design, and to acknowledge those influences.

Best,
Ron

[Matt Machell]

Hey Jason,

when you're looking at background reading for Tea Leaves, there's a nice short story by Neil Gaiman in his anthology Smoke and Mirrors. In it an old lady finds the holy grail in a junk shop and keeps getting pestered by knights wanting it off her. It has that "kitchen magic" feel to it, which is why I mention it, as it's not really about witches as such.


Matt

[Laurel]

In the flavor of Ron's suggestion about using existing systems for inspiration, here is a tarot-using RPG I noticed while at work a couple of days ago and meant to post but forgot.

http://cyrano.best.vwh.net/tarot/tarot.html

I also came upon this page today, and some of the information seems relevant.  http://members.tripod.com/joshualevy/alluvia/