A Different Aging Effect

[Judd]

I like the idea of two casters who have cast spells at the same moment, going to the otherworld together.

I think I'd run it that they can't harm each other.  Weapons are dull, fists weak, like in a dream where you can attack all you want but it comes to nothing.  Perhaps there are some ancient weapons that can do harm in the greyworld but they are rarities.

Some particularly nasty cabals will get a colleague to do a collaborative spell with them if they have such a weapon and wish to do away with him, leave his corpse in the greyworld for time itself to feed on.  What happens to a spirit brought back from the dead who has spent a near eternity in such a place?  Or casting a spell and stumbling across a corpse that was not in the room in the real world.

A fun toy to play with.

[Jasper the Mimbo]

I have all these wonderful images floating around in my head...

Opening a book and seeing nothing but blurred lines, even attempting to write one and having the letters slowly fade into incoherancy and eventually vanishing compleatly, stitching up a wound (with all the pain that entails) only to have it slowly re-open itself the closer one gets to going back to the real world. Casting a spell with another Mage and attempting to speak with them only to find that your voice is muffled and distant and your partner is slightly blurred and looks like he's moving through murky water.
A mage could do whatever they wanted in the grey world, but before they went back everything would revert to the way it was at the time of the casting. Even them. Imagine walking for months on an empty road away from wherever the spell was cast only to see the party you left, still frozen in space, on the horizon very slowly drifting twards you, pulling you inexplicably back to the place you needed to be in order for reality to right itself.

The movement vagery: So a spell is cast to move something somewhere, but the resist roll is failed. Now you actually get to watch the object move in the Greylands.

Sculpture: You get to watch as something very very slowly rearanges itself. If the something is living.... Ick

No hunger or sleeping, nothing to make the time pass faster, inability to do anything even remotely productive. Living in a cold, grey lifeless nowhere without real light, sound or life. Sounds like my definition of hell.

[Ian.Plumb]

Hi,

No hunger or sleeping, nothing to make the time pass faster, inability to do anything even remotely productive. Living in a cold, grey lifeless nowhere without real light, sound or life. Sounds like my definition of hell.

It is a question of perspective. Freed from the need to feed or sleep the mystic is content to have found a way to escape the bonds of the flesh. I imagine for many this would become a goal in and of itself. Many would be happy to dwell in this half-way house between heaven and earth, free from all distractions...

Or, perhaps a little closer to home for some, an individual with heavy daily responsibilities takes time out in the only way practical for one in their position -- a month in the spirit realm, an opportunity to take time out and relax without letting slip their grip on their responsibilities.

For some, perhaps, there would be the issue of boredom -- but for the contemplative academic who studies the vagaries? It seems more like an opportunity than a punishment.

Cheers,

[Caz]

"I also very much like wolfsong's idea about moving through seconds as if they were space. This opens the door to possible time-travel, time-warping, bending, etc. And then there's the pandora's box of going into the past and making a change to history, and see how it alters the present, and so on."

Perhaps that has something to do with how men got to weyrth in the first place before their recored history.

[Judd]

I'm not trying to be the head honcho of the Otherworld here and everyone will handle this in their own way...

but...here are my two ducats on the matter.

I like the idea of some sick bastard who enjoys his time away from reality.  No doubt they exist and in doing so they quickly spend their time in the real world, using it to exist in a place sideways to our world.  To someone, someone not too well, it could be seen as a pleasant escape...maybe.

But that person would be the exception to the rule.  I wouldn't allow for any statistical improvements to be made in this world.  Skills couldn't get any better, wounds don't heal but just give off a dull ache and the world where things matter, where your SA's can be achieved has stopped, leaving the character with nothing to do but consider the amazing sorcererous power they have just thrown around.  They have a painful amount of time to consider this alone, without any way to write observations down or cast any further spells, without any companionship but the odd, unfriendly spirits who would inhabit (how did wolfsong put it), who inhabit the place in between seconds.

Aside from that, what it really means to me is a way to further the story, using what I saw as the most interesting part of the Sorcerery system to make the already fascinating TROS magic system all the more magical.

[Krammer]

When I thought of two sorcerors casting their spells at the same time, and then both being in the grey world, I had this idea of them having some epic struggle.
 It wouldn't necessarily be much of a physical battle, but more of some sort of mental and psychological battle. Imagine two wizards who have been rivals for years, and they finally face off, only to find themselves in the grey world at the same time. While maybe not in an attempt to kill the other, but in an attempt to drive the other insane, they could fight in this grey world.
    or perhaps, rather than fighting eachother, they would have to fight those unthinkable beasts that live within the grey world in order to survive, all the while trying to make the other be defeated by the strange things. Even stranger yet, the two enemies could have to join forces temporarily in order to battle off the twisted creatures of this grey world. MAybe even realizing that they do not want to fight, but it is too late, since they have both already cast their spells, and all they could do is wait for the terrible effects of what they have done.

Heh heh, just a funny thought. imagine if two sorcerors were in the grey world, and one finds out that the other cast a spell far better than him, and he had pretty much lost the battle.

[Jasper the Mimbo]

I just finished playing Legacy of Kain: Defiance. I imagine the Greylands (as I call it) to be something like the underworld that Raziel travels between throughout the game. (if you haven't played any of the series I highly recommend them, if for no other reason than to have the neccessary background to play Defiance. Amazing game.) The main differance of course being static time.

I love the idea of a slightly darker, more twisted world on the other side of our perception, I especially like Paka's "body in the room, but only on the Otherside." idea. What a great way to start a murder mystery game. The questions that spring to mind are: If somone had a weapon that could do real damage in the Greylands how would that work? Would it only work if both parties were there at the same time? If it could effect people in the real world from the greylands it would be terrifying indeed. What would happen to the body? Would it simply materialize wounds in the real world? (if so it would be the ultimate assassins tool) Would the real power of the weapon be the ability to pull other people into the Greylands involentarily, and even if it couldn't hurt them, could the weapon's wielder just leave them there? If someone died in the Greylands, for whatever reason, what would happen to the corpse?

Now I'm all hyped about a game where a group of players is pulled into the greylands and is stranded. How would they get out?

Or how's this:

Major Flaw (gifted): Out of Phase
The charecter is prone to slip in and out of the greylands. Usually when sleeping or is otherwise incapacitated. Everytime the charecter falls unconcious or asleep roll WP/8 (or something) or slip sideways. This acts as random aging, actual time spent is dependant on how badly the roll was failed.

If this world really is a half-way place, as has been suggested, where is it halfway to.

[Krammer]

Can anyone explain why my same post is up there three times? I'm at a loss, myself

[Brian Leybourne]

Krammer,

After you hit "submit", don't touch anything again until it comes back with "your message has been posted", and then don't use the back button on your browser.

I'll delete two of the three identical messages for you.

Brian.

[Judd]

in the Sorcery Concept thread, Ingenious wrote:

...could your character not be able to 'see' what the target character in this situation will do ahead of time, thus being able to manipulate the energy of the spell and modify it to counteract the future actions? Have it be then, that when creating an initial spell... and it has to be modified... the sorcerer already has seen in, pops back into the 'static' real world before the spell is finished, then everything goes back into motion... the sorcerer modifies the spell, the spell gets finished and everything happens according to what the sorcerer wanted.

Aye, I'm flattered that this idea has gotten people thinking and sparked imaginations.  

I'd think that allowing any Sorcerer to travel through time who can cast a spell, is a bit much for what was intended to be a cool way to describe an in-game mechanic.

This is just meant to be a special effect, no more than saying the PC's hair or fingernails have grown.  It is a special effect that could allow for some plot hooks to be dropped into the player's laps if the Seneschal wished to use it so but mostly it is just some creepy and visceral imagery to help us imagine what it would be like to sacrifice months off of our lives in order to access Sorcerous power.

For me, that is all this is but at your table, have fun.

When you do use the effect, please post the response and how it effected the game as it will be a month and some change before I get a chance to run TROS (unless I get lucky when I head home for the holidays and some gamers are found with some free time).

[Jasper the Mimbo]

A friend of mine and I have been bouncing ideas of of each other in regards to this topic. One of the things that got us really fired up was the concept of wizards duel in the Greylands. Two wizards mystically duking it out sinking ever farther into eldrich darkness beyond space and time. They couldn't really hurt each other there, but the spells would stack and stack and then go off all at once, after they got back. I really liked the idea of the two expending all of their spell energy, not being certain who really won, and having to join forces to fight off the locals and find their way back, just so one or the other (or both) could die.

We decided that there was really no reason that a mage couldn't continue to use magic in the greylands, it just couldn't effect the real world at all, (unless they were casting magic at a target in the greylands who then went back to the real world, like in the above description.) and we thought it would be mighty cool if using magic there would sink a mage even further away from the real world. We also thought it would be interesting if some of the things that live in the lands beyond actually fed on ambient magic or spell residue. Attracting these creatures could be quite hazardous to a mages health, especially if the mage also happened to be Fae.

This would also explain why mage rivalrys haven't destroyed big chunks of the world of unraveled reality. Most wizards battles couldn't even really effect anything but each other.

[Ingenious]

Paka, I know your idea is perfect for story hooks and so forth, but I was only attempting to expand on your idea to fit a different situation.  This can be a momentary thing, this seeing the consequences of his actions... more-over.. I can revise my idea by saying that the mage does not see the future actions of his targets, but he can see the future actions of his spell and the consequences of if the spell works as intended or fails. He THEN can see that, realize it, travel back to the static world and revise his spell... and then be sent BACK to the overworld because he modified his spell... sees if it works or fails, and repeats the process if it fails UNTIL IT WORKS. (It's the most brutally simple answer I could come up with in a comprimising sort of fashion for all parties involved in the idea) And it seems to work well, at least in my mind.

-Ingenious
'But, in my mind.. I am God.'

[Mike Holmes]

The big "advantage" to sorcerers doing this, it seems to me, is that the Sorcerer has time to look around. Even if things are shadowy, if the Evil Sorcerer's apprentice is just in the other room, I'll find that out during my time, and be able to mentally prepare for what I'm going to do when I return.

Call this the Jackson/Travolta effect. Appears to be divine intervention if when the guy comes out of the closet with his gun blazing the sorcerer knows to duck before it happens. So in a "tactical" situation, I think there's a huge advantage to this effect in terms of being able to aquire intelligence.

Further, if a character ages in this world (that's the idea, no?) then why wouldn't he also heal up? If it's not supposed to make sense, then why do we need the rationale in the first place?

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I like the imagery too (mayhap Ringwraiths live there almost constantly?). It's just that some of the ramifications ought to be considered.

Mike

[Judd]

When using this technique the Seneschal would have to be very careful when considering what to describe.  Luckily, the greyspace is a dimly lit otherworld, whose light, dimensions and perceptions aren't governed by any clear logic.

What the players sees and doesn't see is entirely up to the Senescal.  It could be used as a way of the PC getting a handle on a situation, only if the Senescal wanted that.  It oculd be used to watch a kind of consequence of the spell just cast if the Seneschal has something to say in that arena.  Or it could just be used as another method of describing the price of casting these spells as time spent in a grey otherworldly prison where wounds don't heal and seconds tumble by in total isolation.

The big thesis of this special effect is this:  The Sorcerer is alone.  There are few who are the Sorcerer's peers and many of them will try to kill him.  There are beasts who share this magic but the Sorcerer willl frequently not understand their odd minds.

I am glad people are questioning this because it allows me to hone and sharpen my ideas on the matter.

Thanks.

[Stephen]

I like the idea of some sick bastard who enjoys his time away from reality.  No doubt they exist and in doing so they quickly spend their time in the real world, using it to exist in a place sideways to our world.  To someone, someone not too well, it could be seen as a pleasant escape...maybe.

But that person would be the exception to the rule.  I wouldn't allow for any statistical improvements to be made in this world.  Skills couldn't get any better, wounds don't heal but just give off a dull ache and the world where things matter, where your SA's can be achieved has stopped, leaving the character with nothing to do but consider the amazing sorcererous power they have just thrown around.  They have a painful amount of time to consider this alone, without any way to write observations down or cast any further spells, without any companionship but the odd, unfriendly spirits who would inhabit (how did wolfsong put it), who inhabit the place in between seconds.

While I think this is a spectacular idea in theory, I think (being the obligatory devil's advocate) it has a number of problems in practice, especially in a roleplaying game.

First of all, this may be just too much suspension of disbelief for some players.  It certainly would be for me.  Assuming that you neither sleep nor eat nor defecate in the Greylands, nor can you move much beyond where you were at the time of spellcasting or (farthest-case scenario) even perceive very much, you are essentially talking about months of near-total sensory deprivation -- months of utterly unbroken consciousness with no input and no down-time.  Studies have been done on people put in real-life situations like this, and the general consensus is that anybody who existed like this for more than a few days would come out of it quite literally gibberingly mad.

I don't find the idea of going mad due to a botched spell inappropriate, of course, but the idea of having to cast every spell perfectly or face this insanity would put even more restrictions on sorcery.

Secondly is that unlike a story or novel which can turn on the discovery and relevance of the Greylands to the plot, an RPG campaign can only do this once or twice before, no matter how skilful the Seneschal's descriptions, it will begin to pall -- and the more restrictions put on the Greylands to prevent players benefitting somehow from their time there, the more rapidly they'll lose interest.  Mindcandy is like eyecandy: it works best the first time and (like a careless sorcerer) can get old real fast.

I would suggest that this idea is very cool, but should be incorporated more integrally into the physics and cosmology of magic unique to your particular campaign.  Perhaps you exist in a dream-state in the Greylands, and are not conscious of time passing the same way; perhaps the Greylands are the place that Vision spells access to scry across space and time, and any spell that puts the sorcerer momentarily in the Greylands gives him a small chance of a useful vision or prophecy.  Perhaps a sorcerer can embed a spell in preparation for aging that allows him to act fully consciously in the Greylands, at the price of further life-loss....