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TROS: Tanks, Guns, and Giant Robots.

Started by MachMoth, December 09, 2003, 11:34:45 PM

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Lance D. Allen

For mobility modifiers, you'd place them in the description of the individual mecha, the same way special rules are noted by several of the weapons. Keep the parallel between weapons and mecha, and you'll be on the right track.

FYI, if Harlequin's suggestions are more the route you're going, I think we'll be diverging. I don't feel they were bad ideas, it's just not how I'd choose to handle it. When it comes to rules modifications or expansions, I prefer to add as little or change as little of the rules and stats as necessary to achieve the desired effect.
~Lance Allen
Wolves Den Publishing
Eternally Incipient Publisher of Mage Blade, ReCoil and Rats in the Walls

Mechavomit

Just for your own edification the cartoon was, in fact, called Exo-Squad.

An excellent cartoon, for my money.

MachMoth

Wolfen,
I agree with you on that point.  I would want the rules to retain as much TRoS flavor as possible.  However, my ultimate goal is to cover a larger variety of technology and capabilities than the man on man style combat.  I feel the core rules don't fully allow for this kind of combat (nor should they).  I'd be quite happy if you proved me wrong.

However, since I'm doing this for nothing more than a set of fancy house rules, I'm interested in everything mentioned here.  Harlequin's description just matches eerily close to what I initially pictured.
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Lance D. Allen

Well, see you got me thinking about it, which means I may work it to the point that it's publishable as a mini-supplement for TRoS. I'll contribute to any discussion here, but the actual work that I'll probably be doing will be later, once I've finally got the bulk of TRoS: Gladiators done.

Now, obviously the core rules alone cannot handle massive robots who primarily use ranged weapons. This is why I made the additions that I did. However, I do not see rules designed to simulate the thrust and parry, cut and evade accurately and smoothly simulating long-range combat with energy, kinetic and explosive weapons. That is why I prefer a melding of the ranged and close-combat rules, each used at appropriate ranges. My rationale is this:

Ranged field combat between armored vehicles is broken into a couple different "styles". The first, the most popular, is what I refer to as the "see it, shoot it" mentality. You see an enemy target, you identify that it is an enemy, you shoot it and kill it before it has a chance to recognize you. If it's got buddies, you quickly move on to the next target before their confusion at the distruction of their buddy abates and defensive instincts take over. One rounds have been fired, and there are survivors (either because you missed, or because there are more targets than firing elements) then the second style of combat takes over. At this point, Evasion is a constant task, using constant, difficult to predict motion, and/or Inter-Visibility lines, such as terrain features or structures to obscure yourself or block the enemy's fire. All the while that you're evading, you're doing your best to get a good shot on the enemy, who is doing likewise. This evasion is not about the act, perceive and react that melee parrying and evasion is all about. This is simply making yourself a difficult target, which is best handled by the penalties given for ranged combat -vs- moving or obscured targets.

Now, obviously there must be some tweaks to the ranged system, as modern and ultra-modern weapons can fire much more rapidly than medieval bows and crossbows, but much of these tweaks can be made simply by modifying the weapon stats. Some rules, such as burst or rapid fire, or even firing multiple weapon systems at the same time (quite possible for multi-weapon vehicles) will need to be added, but these are additional rules that do not require any real change to the core mechanic.

A (hopefully) brief example of how I would see my system of mecha-on-mecha combat working:

Seneschal: Mecha2, You missed on your first shot, and mecha1 now has a chance to react to your presence.
Mecha1: Hm. This isn't a good range for most of my weapon systems. I'm going to charge him, moving erratically, while readying my HV-Cannon. That'll take me.. 2 rounds.
Seneschal: Alright. Your movement score is 17, and it's 42 unitsofmeasure between you and mecha2. So it would take you 2 rounds to close to within 10uom.
Mecha1: perfect timing.
Mecha2: I'm going to check fire for 1 round, and allow my targetting systems time to work.
Seneschal: Alright. Mecha2, your pool refreshes, and mecha1 spends time closing and readying. Next round.
Mecha1: still closing and readying. Man, I wish there was something I could use for cover. I feel so naked out here in the open.
Mecha2: I'll be taking my shot this round. Particle Cannon to.. upper torso. I think that's where the cockpit is. How many dice will I have?
Seneschal: Your Interface is a 5, your total CP is a 13.. So you'll have 10 dice after a round of aiming. However, your target is moving erratically, and is at 2 range increments. So that totals to a -5 dice.
Mecha2: Alright. I fire with all 5 remaining. (rolls dice)
Mecha1: Damn, this is gonna suck..
Mecha2: Against a TN of 7 for my Particle Cannon I rolled an 8, 7, 5 3 and a 1. So two successes.
Seneschal: What's the damage on your Particle Cannon?
Mecha2: 7, plus my 2 successes for a total of 9.
Seneschal: Okay, so 9 minus your mecha's AR, Mecha1.
Mecha1: AR is a 6, so I take a level 3 wound. Crap.
Mecha2: (rolls a d6) I rolled a 5.
Seneschal: (consults chart) Shoulder hit. System shock -X, Damage -Y, Power Loss Z.
Mecha1: Damnit! Well, it's not enough to take me down. I'm gonna have to close in if I want to finish him off.
Seneschal: Okay. Next round.
Mecha2: I'm gonna snap another shot at him. I should have 5 dice.
Mecha1: I'll be closing into close range now, and my HV-Cannon should be ready to rock.
Seneschal: Okay.. Your Interface is 8, so you've got 8 dice, minus SS and Damage.
Mecha1: That's.. ech, only 2 dice left.
Mecha2: Wait, he's in close. Don't I get to use my full CP?
Seneschal: No, it's the first round of transition for you. He's using a freshly readied weapon, so he's got to refill too.
Mecha2: Alright. I'm firing with all 5 dice, upper torso again.
Mecha1: Eh.. I'm going to full evade this exchange until the SS wears off. 2 dice, obviously.
Mecha2: (rolls) Ohmigod. A 7, 4, 3, 3, and a 2. That sucks.
Mecha1: Heh. (rolls) A 9, and a 6.
Mecha2: You so totally suck.
Mecha1: I beat you, didn't I?
Seneschal: Okay guys, cool it. Defender wins exchange, but you both used your entire dicepools, so the round ends. Next round, full CP refresh, Mecha1, you've got initiative.
Mecha1: I should have my full CP now, minus my Damage, so that's.. 12 dice.
Mecha2: Ouch! I didn't realize your CP was that high..
Mecha1: You should have thought of that before you took a shot at me, pup.
Seneschal: Declare your actions already.
Mecha1: I'm gonna let him have it with my HV-Cannon. At close range, I get a +2 CP to hit. Hm. I'm gonna hit him in the leg. 6 dice.
Mecha2: I'm going to do an evasive shot. 1 CP activation cost, Spending 2 dice on evasion, 6 dice on the hit.. total of 9 dice out of my 13.
Mecha1: (rolls) 10, 10, 9, 8, 5, 4, 1, 1. Good thing I got some successes, or that would have been a fumble. So.. TN 8, err, 9 I suppose, 'cause of his evasive attack... Still 3 successes. (rolls a d6) 6.
Seneschal: Hm. 3 successes + 6 damage for the HV... minus an AR of 6.. Level 3 wound to the.. upper thigh. SS:X D:X PL:X, roll for knockdown, -2.
Mecha2: Blah. (rolls for knockdown) Success. Now I roll to hit.. 3 dice now, 'cause of SS. (rolls) 10, 6 and 2. 1 success....

And so on. As you can see, it retains most of the feel of TRoS, with one little odd-point as it switches from ranged to "close" range.
~Lance Allen
Wolves Den Publishing
Eternally Incipient Publisher of Mage Blade, ReCoil and Rats in the Walls

MachMoth

Can't argue with that.  Now, I can see your point of view.  I really couldn't picture the ranged rules working, primarily due to their speed.  But, you seem to have got it working nicely.
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Melkor

This sounds pretty amazing to me. If you guys put together enough to warrant a playtest - count me in.
'But the discord of Melkor rose in uproar and contended with it, and again there was a war of sound more violent than before, until many of the Ainur were dismayed and sang no longer, and Melkor had the mastery.'