Advice wanted for a Percentile system

[Endoperez]

A long time ago, I found free rpg rules system called Knights of Legend from internet. It is a percentile system, and it has main attributes, attributes counted from them and skills that are based on an attribute. Higher the attribute, higher the skill's base value. When you advance in the skill, the value of the skill may increase over the value of its base attribute.

I thought it was not ready, and its creator told me that he has a lot more rules, but they are not in an electrical form, or even put down on paper. So, I went on and evolved the rules. They are not the same anymore, but KoL is the core and I thought it should be given the honor it needs.

Anyway, it had only rules for succeeding in skill (str 40, clubs lvl 2, throw percentile under (40+5+5 = 50). First I thought about battle, and realized that it is not about who succeeds, but who succeeds better. So, at the moment if you try to hit someone you try to get your (skill + percentile) above the (skill + percentile) of your enemy. I know there can be lots of variables in here, but I have just improvised according to the situation...

Now I have problems with the rules I don't have for things done outside of combat. What I have used so far is percentile under skill +/- difficulty bonus. I have this idea about having specially good failures/succeeds: 100 under and over needed. They are possible because 00 is counted as -50 and 99 as +50. So, if you had skill of fifty, there were no bonuses and you rolled 00, you would have rolled -50, that is excactly 100 under 50 and would be a special, 'super' roll. But as I have no idea about what is easy and what is hard, it is really hard to choose the difficulty. It is even more so because I don't know what characters generally have as skill values. Heck, I don't really know about racial generals either!

As you see, any help is appreciated. If there is any free, full system that uses percentiles in either attributes or skills (In fact, in KoL and my rules they can go over 100..), I would like to know about that. Also, monsters would be nice to see, too (I have made up the few I have used). I have realised more skills are needed also. Dodge is one big example... Animals can't block those blows, but can still be hard to kill! KoL had more than enough races, but I have not dared to show them to my players. The lists have lots of creatures I would not allow them to use, (like Maiar and Valar!), but I'm not sure are the "normal" ones strong enough in it... Especially humans seem weak.

- Endoperez -
I am trying to GM, for I never were able to find one...
Pity me, and my players.

P.S. This is wonderful forum! I just love this! I wish I will have enough time to follow everything happening here...

[John Kim]

As you see, any help is appreciated. If there is any free, full system that uses percentiles in either attributes or skills (In fact, in KoL and my rules they can go over 100..), I would like to know about that. Also, monsters would be nice to see, too (I have made up the few I have used).

Have you seen my free RPG list?  (URL http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/freerpgs/ )  There are certainly plenty of percentile RPGs.  Here are a few fantasy RPGs using percentile systems to try:

Lycadican   http://lycadican.sourceforge.net/
Oroborus    http://www.ragnarokpress.com/oroborus/
Pathwanderer     http://pathwanderer.5u.com/
Shakhan   http://www.globalserve.net/~marcusnkaren/shakhan/shakhan_homepage.htm

You can just search on the word "percentile" in my full list to see dozens more.  

Editted to add:  Welcome to The Forge, by the way!!!

[Andrew Martin]

Welcome to The Forge!

As you see, any help is appreciated. If there is any free, full system that uses percentiles in either attributes or skills (In fact, in KoL and my rules they can go over 100..), I would like to know about that.

The information you've given so far seems to indicate that the system is probably based on ICE MERPS or maybe an early version of RoleMaster. Because the original author and yourself have made many changes, have you considered starting afresh, determining a vision or goal of how the game should work and then making the game system suit that vision? That way the problems you mention, like "humans seem weak" would be designed right from the start instead of being "patched".

[Endoperez]

Welcome to The Forge!

Thank you!

The information you've given so far seems to indicate that the system is probably based on ICE MERPS or maybe an early version of RoleMaster. Because the original author and yourself have made many changes, have you considered starting afresh, determining a vision or goal of how the game should work and then making the game system suit that vision? That way the problems you mention, like "humans seem weak" would be designed right from the start instead of being "patched".

I am trying to find something that I could use as a reference, because I have been thinking about some reforms in the system. Like including a new Charisma-stat to let my players have social skills as skills. Humans will be better in it than most other races, either from the start or by improving in it faster (it will improve automatically when levelling). I personally don't like this, but as my players are not very interested in roleplaying it seems I have to add something to make them talk...
I don't have a clear vision or a spesific goal, although I have some quidelines for magic and things... The base is that everything is skills, and anyone can learn anything if they have someone teaching them.


And John, thanks! I wish I had seen your page before I went to deeply to my own system... And thanks for the links, I am going to check them tomorrow. I am waiting to what answers those links give to me! Can you recommend any systems that have a good magic system, preferably skill-based, or a good list of spells?  I glanced briefly at the D&D spell list, and those look too overpowered.

- Endoperez -

[Endoperez]

I checked Lycadican. The magic system seems like what I might have gotten after lots of work! I was going for a magic with either runecraft with which to create the spells or schools that give different spells for those who use different source of power, although all the spells in a school are more alike than most spells of different schools, and now in Lycadican there are atleast two magic forms which I do like! But I really have to go to have some sleep  now! Thank you!

- Endoperez -

[Andrew Martin]

I don't have a clear vision or a specific goal,...

This is a really, really important point. With out that clear vision of where you want to get to, you'll end up going around in circles or going to places you don't want to go to.

I personally don't like this, but as my players are not very interested in roleplaying it seems I have to add something to make them talk...

This is a start. You're interested in getting your players interested in roleplaying, yet you've found that your players aren't interested in roleplaying. This indicates that the system you have at the moment, obviously doesn't reward this kind of behaviour from the players; it probably discourages players from roleplaying! Would this be correct?

[Endoperez]

I don't believe the system discourages them from roleplaying, but I don't HAVE a real system for roleplaying things... But if they roleplay well, people react as they meant they would. The problem comes clear when they don't roleplay well... I don't know whether people should react to what they said (or I think they said) or what they meant when they said that... It should be the latter, but that leaves out the misunderstandings. When they try to do something, they overplay it. I am not very good in that, either... I really should write more things on paper before the sessions. And I should do more work on describing things. I would like roleplaying to be centered on playing the role, but there should be rules so that the players can think out maneuvers without asking the GM first. Both to let them surprise the GM and to let them GM. And it would save time. At the moment I have just decided this is so and that is like that when these things were encountered, and players are not very certain about the rules.

What should I do to get them roleplaying? Give out experience? Or give them bonuses that would be hard to get other ways (picks to skills through training)? I hope the priest is going to roleplay more, ah he doesn't 'cast spells', he prays to his god and his prayers might be answered... I have to do some kind of a list to remind me what his god might do for him, but otherways it has worked quite well. He hasn't used it much, though... And I'm afraid I have to give him examples, and then he justs uses those as spells he casts. I'm not sure if that is a good or a bad thing. Maybe his faith should give him an ability to cast spells, but he needs to ask his god if he wants to do a miracle his faith alone is not enough for... And I have thought about saints and spirits he prays to, so that his god isn't disturbed all the time.

[Anthony I]

Endo,

I would ask you- are you and your players having fun?  If yes, then don't worry about roll- vs role- playing.  They are a rather poor distinction, especially as neither one is any better or worse than the other.  You have to be ready for the fact that your players may have no interest in role- playing.  

I would also suggest that you just tell your players "hey, I'd like to see some more role- playing" And make sure that you tell them what, exactly, you mean by role-playing.  Communication is the key.

Some ways to reward the type of play that you're looking for?  Well, what exactly are you looking for?  

Some Techniques that might help- Just using your preist example below, give him bonuses (things like enhanced spell effects, or more powerfull spells, or extra dice, or plusses to him, or minuses to his enemies, or whatever) that only happen when he verbally acts out (or describes colorfully for the other players) him calling upon his god for aid.  Then reward him immediately and so that all the other players know that his bonus came from those particular types of actions.  Then let them know similar bonuses are available to them for similar types of actions.

[M. J. Young]

Endoperez, let me suggest that some of the articles here might help you think outside the box a bit. I'm going to particularly mention http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/23/">Applied Theory, not because I wrote it, but because it talks about how different techniques can encourage different play priorities with some specifics--and it addresses the idea of experience point reward systems specifically, so that might help you figure out how to encourage what you want from your players. There are also a number of games that encourage description and interaction by providing immediate rewards--the one that comes to mind (which may be less useful in your case, but is a good example nonetheless) is Feng Shui, in which (if I understand correctly) the description of a really cool martial arts move gets bonuses on the outcome, a direct and immediate reward that encourages the descriptions of really cool martial arts moves in play. I've a suspicion that there are a lot of other games at which you should look for such things, but I'll leave it to others on the forums to suggest which (and also which articles to read first).

Hope that helps.

--M. J. Young