new flaw

[Ashren Va'Hale]

I was thinking Debt would be a cool flaw. Basically a character owes someone some money.

You could vary the amount and to whom with the severity of the flaw.

Minor: a little to some one bad or a lot to someone benevolent

Major: A lot to someone not so nice about you owing him some cash and willing to accept limbs/heads for payment at this point. Think Han solo and Jaba's relationship.

Anyways, thought it would be a nasty flaw to have and offer lots of playing room to a GM for making fun twists to a story.

One could also add SA's into this:
Drive: Pay off debt, by any means....

and mix it with flaw: Greed and you have the makings of a really fun but tragically flawed character.

just some ideas.

[Mike Holmes]

It's a great idea, but the problem is that it's one of those things that seems like it should go away when in-game situations are right. That is, what if as a result of play I come across a pile of money? Can I pay off my Debt?

Mike

[Ashren Va'Hale]

sure.
It will cost the character to get rid of the flaw as he wont have that pile of cash to spend and flaws and gifts can be granted / removed in game at seneschal dicretion so sure thing.

Wouldn't it suck to find a stack of a 100 gold coins but have to choose: Pay off the hut, or spend on new Charger.....

definitely not a problem.

[Jake Norwood]

sure.
It will cost the character to get rid of the flaw as he wont have that pile of cash to spend and flaws and gifts can be granted / removed in game at seneschal dicretion so sure thing.

Wouldn't it suck to find a stack of a 100 gold coins but have to choose: Pay off the hut, or spend on new Charger.....

definitely not a problem.

I have to admit, I've always hated that aspect of GURPS--that if you ran into a lot of cash, but you started out with the "poor" disadvantage, then you had to pay off your disadvantage with character points. Serious pet peeve o' mine.

Jake

[Lance D. Allen]

As I understand it, the fact that you can get rid of flaws through in-game events is entirely intentional in TRoS. If you're a gimp, and you run across a sorcerer willing to grow the limb back, why should you have to spend SAs? I mean, you can get a limb hacked off without getting SAs or Insight for it, so why should the opposite be any different?

[Ashren Va'Hale]

both you and jake said it better than I did, nice. Thanks.

[Ingenious]

Debt does not necessarily, in terms of a flaw... ever have to be about money. Maybe someone saved your life, maybe someone saved a loved one's life... and now you're tied to that person in hopes of working off that debt.  (like that black dude from Robin Hood, if that turns out to be a correct comparison.. just shooting from the hip here.)
And from this flaw can come the inverse of it. A gift, that you saved the life of some noble, noble's daughter, wife, peasant, horse.. whatever.
Thus you can either gain a servant to do your laundry, cook your food... shine your shoes, make your bed... give you some money(in the case of a noble).. etc.
I beleive that this closely resembles the good reputation gift, but maybe a bit more intense rather than someone just recognizing you in a bar and buying you a beer.

-Ingenious

[Ashren Va'Hale]

good point, I like it! you could even say that was an ingenious insight....

[Krammer]

I really like this idea! Finally, something to do with money. I have never had to worry about running out of money so long as my social class is more than just 'peasant'..... unless I buy a bunch of elephants, or other things with little to no purpose. (well, i guess an elephant would be cool in battle. it would be fun to trample everything that opposes you!)

[Jaif]

Personally, I like to leave debt as an in-game device, not a mechanic on somone's char. sheet.  However, I'll happily use it as device to tweak character's SAs a bit, e.g. if someone is loyal to their family, and sister sue is always spending too much, that could certainly make life interesting. :-)

-Jeff

[Ingenious]

Okay, debt as a 'mechanic on someones character sheet' makes me wonder exactly what kind of person thinks that. Do you view all of your flaws and gifts for your PC's as just 'mechanics on character sheets'? Just some useless rabble that doesn't need consideration? Please tell me differently. Debt in any form, be it money, etc... as a flaw is not just a 'mechanic', it comes with creditors running after you to collect. And you'd either have to run away or fight them.. which the fighting would have legal troubles for I'm sure. For a non-monetary debt, you'd be obligated to serve someone in order to work it off. And that is a much larger thing than a 'mechanic on someones character sheet'. I never said it should be a 'mechanic on someones character sheet.. and for you to have to role-play that 'service' and such proves it to be exactly the opposite of what you thought it was.

Sorry, got a bit too worked up there...
As to the money-debt thing that everyone is soooo worried about.
When someone is in debt, and they come across 'a pile of money' sometimes they can't pay it off all at once. Some of that pile of money might have to go towards bills for(thinking modern for a moment) car payments, insurance, rent, electric bill, water bill, gas bill, etc etc etc.

If one was to buy a new charger horse instead of 'paying off the hut' maybe the hut would send some bounty-hunters after you.... but NOT freeze you in carbonite. Did not Solo have the money for Jabba after saving Princess Leia(spelling?) in the first movie? And also for ferrying Luke and Obi-Wan from Mos Eisley? Where did that money go off to I wonder... hmmmm expenses to be had PERHAPS?!?!?!?!
You see my point with that.

-Ingenious

[Jake Norwood]

Actually, Ingenious brings up an interesting point. People in serious debt usually have personality traits that lead them into debt, and to stay there even when they could get out. Thus perhaps this flaw not only encompases a personal debt, but a personal tendency to waste money when the debt could be paid off, or the tendency to simply accrue debt constanty because of an inability to live within one's own means.

Jake

[Judd]

I am thinking of this flaw as it will relate to my Fey game.  I'm thinking of a powerful broken oath or a situation where one Sidhe has saved another Sidhe's life and is beholden to their savior, owning their existence to another.

Could this relate to the Anglo-Saxon (at least I think it was Anglo-Saxon) idea of weregild?