[Trollbabe comics] Naked Sacrifice story

[Valamir]

Yeah...I kinda suspected that...  :-)

[jrs]

It's interesting what elements different people use to pick up similarities across the strips.  I didn't notice the doors until it was pointed out.  I *did* note that the bodies in the second panel of the last strip are in the exact same configuration as the first panel of the 6th strip--that was my mental connect between events.  

Julie

[jburneko]

Hello,

1) I tottally got that it was the same set of cultists Retta beat up.

2) I totally missed the spider amulets and who the woman was.

3) My actual thought was, "Hey, it's a cameo by Katchoo from Strangers in Paradise."  :)  But then I've been reading that comic a lot lately.

I'm glad to have the explination though because *shock-horror* I actually LIKED this one.  I thought it was over last week and this weeks "Epilogue" made me go "Huh?"  Part of what sold the whole thing for me though was the white-on-black sort-of baroque font used to write the word "No" for the bat's sole line of dialogue.  That, and Retta's hair is drawn really sexy in that same panel.

Jesse

[Lxndr]

My only question is: how the heck do you guys know that it's Retta?  The epilogue was easy, but how do you recognize these troll women?

[jburneko]

Simple Answer: Retta has long curly horns and light hair.  Tha has short pointy horns, and dark hair.

Complex Answer: Tha is the cool broody Trollbabe who knows what she wants and acts without much deliberation to get it.  Retta is the anoying "free-spirit" Tollbabe who is searching for something and is entirely too caught up in her own self doubt.

Jesse

[Lxndr]

So there's only two of 'em?
Okay.  That helps.

[James V. West]

Here's my take.

Reading the strips one at a time over a few days or weeks: confusing ending. By the time the last strip appears we have very little recollection of the doorway in the background from a few strips ago.

Reading them all at once: seamless. The visual cues remain strong and everything falls into place nicely.

The "someone's done our job for us" line I think would have elminated all confusion.

But I actually enjoy a bit of subtlety and some mystery. I think the whole strip turned out very well and Colin's artwork really shined.

[Valamir]

Agreed on all counts.

I also think that those who read comics regularly get more attuned to picking up such visual cues; where those who don't...aren't.

I actually have to conciously force myself to look at the images in a comic because my automatic response is to concentrate on the words.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Would anyone like to go to the website and read all the stories, in order, at this time?

I'd be interested in several things:

1. Jesse's continuing plaint that the Retta stories are shallow. And Jesse, if you're joking about that, bear in mind that the humor doesn't come across in print.

2. Whether understanding what happens - including points of mystery - is an identifiable issue within individual stories.

3. What underlying issues or plot points are crossing between the two characters' adventures, encounters, and experiences.

Best,
Ron

[Tim Alexander]

Would anyone like to go to the website and read all the stories, in order, at this time?

Sure, just did.

1. Jesse's continuing plaint that the Retta stories are shallow. And Jesse, if you're joking about that, bear in mind that the humor doesn't come across in print.

I'd need some references to some of Jesse's posts to make a decent evaluation on this, but I don't know that Rhetta's stories are really any more shallow than Tha's. Tha seems to be a more mysterious character, with Rhetta being a bit more accessible, but that's tangental to the actual content of the story in a strip. I think Rhetta's stories have plenty of depth.

2. Whether understanding what happens - including points of mystery - is an identifiable issue within individual stories.

I had no trouble understanding what was going on within a single story when reading all the strips in sequence. I have no idea if that would be the case if I had read them as each strip came.

3. What underlying issues or plot points are crossing between the two characters' adventures, encounters, and experiences.

Holy Trollers jumped at me as a major crossing point for the two stories. Certainly the visions reference Rhetta's journey across the sea and to the Goo Feud, maybe they're also tied to visions that the Musician talks about in the first strip. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rogue troll in Holy is the one released by Rhetta at the circus as well. Nothing else jumped out at me as crossing over but I'm certainly engaged in what I feel are the various threads that are hanging. Questions like:

"Are the Prophet troll's visions and the Musician's visions related?"
"Is Tha's only interest in the birthroot as a child, or is it more?"
"How the heck does Rhetta know the bat creature?"
"Who are the people who show up after Rhetta's stomped the cultists?"
"What's with the spider cultists, and where's the avatar going to end up?"

As for issues, obviously both threads are dealing with the 'babes as outsiders. Tha appears to be trying to remedy this through the birthroot; Rhetta seems less inclined to address it directly/conciously, but some of her choices (re: release of the troll) point towards it. I have to admit that the changing art does make it more difficult to draw comparisons across strips. I really like the changing art, though I have my favorites, but it makes picking up visual cues across stories all the more difficult.

-Tim

[jrs]

Ron,

1. In general I enjoy the Retta stories more than the Tha stories.

2. I do not have any difficulties understanding what happens in each story although occasionally the action in an individual strip is less than clear.

3. I don't see any crossover until the Holy Trollers strip, and no direct links between Retta and Tha.  References between the two story lines that I've noticed are the Green Goo Swamp, Aiga, and the spider cult.

I did not immediately identify the blonde in The Naked Helpless Sacrifice Scene as Gwyneth.  (You id'd her earlier in this thread.)  Going simply by the comics, I could also id her as Inge.  

Julie

[Tim Alexander]

I did not immediately identify the blonde in The Naked Helpless Sacrifice Scene as Gwyneth.  (You id'd her earlier in this thread.)  Going simply by the comics, I could also id her as Inge.

Obviously I missed this as well, I had even read this thread. Admittedly I read the thread without any context of the stories so it never clicked.

-Tim

[jburneko]

Hello Again,

Hmmm... I'm not sure if I've ever asserted that the Retta stories are "shallow" per se.  I remember saying at first that I had trouble identifying "meaningful choice" but I think I have handle on that.  My confusion has more to do with a) I occasionally seem to overlook certain key dialogue or art elements that I don't notice until I've read the entire complete story a third or fourth time and b) my own cynicism about the nature of authored stories relative to difficult moral choices.

Now, I just find Retta anoying on a personal preference level.  She's so full of self-doubt (as driven home by the end of Sex and Death with Music and A Day a the Circus) it drives me crazy particularly when she hasn't been faced with any particularly difficult choices... at least not compared to Tha.  In fact, I find the bit at the end of Holly Trollers where Tha muses, "But who are my people?" to be a bit out of place.  That seemed like a very Retta thing to me.  It may be an issue that Tha faces in her personal pursuits but I don't think she would ever verbalize it, even to herself.

I have to admit that part of why I LIKED the last story so much was how it began.  I derived a bit of sick pleasure out of seeing Retta shot full of arrows with the captions seeming to attribute he rather dire set of circumstances directly to her "philosophy", so to speak.  THEN these awesome cultists show up and drag her away into the night. Could it get any better?  

If anything I think the fact that I HAVE read so much into these two characters should say something.

Criticisms that probably won't go away:

1) Too.  Damn.  Slow.

2) Too.  Damn.  Subtle.  This is particularly bad when combined with #1.  As I said, sometimes it takes a second or even third reading of the story in its entirety before I think I fully "get it."

3) I still can't get behind the jokey slang.  Everytime it gives the strip a kind of forced "hip"-ness it doesn't need.  Even muted slang such as "weirdos" or "freaks" instead of "goofballs" would have worked for me.

So, those are my thoughts.

Jesse

[xiombarg]

I have to admit that while I enjoy some of the individual stories, the more I read them -- and I generally catch up with them all at once when they're posted as a full story on the website -- I understand less and less what Trollbabe, as a game, is supposed to be about. The strips confuse me, rather than make things clearer.  The more I read the strips, the less of an idea I have as to how Trollbabe should be run.

Each story just seems to... stop. It's like a bunch of D&D adventures, only even more rambling and random.

Should I not be trying to use the strips to understand the game?

[Lxndr]

Ron has made previous commentary that Trollbabe-the-comic-strip has less-than-nothing to do with Trollbabe-the-game (or at least, that was my interpretation of his commentary).  So, barring connection from Mr. Edwards that's my recommendation.