CineReality System: First post, Protocol: Zero design goals

[Jim_Hague]

Hola all.  Longtime lurker, first time poster.  I'm currently wrapping up my first major writing project in the hobby for one of the big publishers, and having gotten some confidence from it, I'm finally venturing out into the wilds of actual game design.  however, while I've got some (IMO) nifty ideas, I'm not a rules monkey by any stretch of the imagination.  And so I come to here, hat in hand, for some help.

A little bit of background on the game I'm writing, using some pre-existing games as reference points:

The Basics
Protocol: Zero is set in an alternative history present, and is a mixture of action, horror and conspiracy, starting at a Call of Cthulhu-esque character level of personal horror and moving ultimately towards a divination into the nature of the characters' world and reality a la Grant Morrison's The Invisibles.  

The characters start out as only slightly above average folks who discover the true nature of reality - the world they live in is a construct, an artificial history created by shadowy forces a century before.  A large part of the overarcing goal of the game world is to discover the true nature of the Great Lie and, ultimately, perhaps save the world from the menace it was created to conceal.  

Threat Levels
Not a levelled system in the d20 sense, but more a representation of where someone or something exists within the larger conspiratorial hierarchy in terms of influence.  Joe Average exists on Threat Level 0; he or she has no idea that anything's amiss.  PCs by default start at Threat Level 1 - they've experienced something they cannot understand or explain rationally, and have begun to ascend/descend the Jacob's Ladder of the Great Lie.  

A basic outline of the Threat Levels, as interpreted through Ken Hite's excellent Nightmares of Mine:

0. The level everyday existence acts on.  TL0 characters have very little effect on the backdrop of the world...and in turn, the events that occur at higher Threat Levels usually have little effect on them in turn.  Equivalent to Ken's No Supernaturalism.

1. Default starting threat Level for the PCs.  The movers and shakers of the hidden world are mere shadowy figures, puppeting events from very, very far away.  This level corresponds best to low-powered horror-conspiracy, similar to the very first season of The X-Files.

2. The characters begin to have more control over their world, and in the doing, begin to have more control over it.  At this level, the supernatural is everywhere and seen in everything, straining the characters' sanity at times.  More mundane supernatural and conspiratorial terrors begin to give way to the more surreal horror of the Lie itself.  Equivalent to a Level Three (Minor Supernaturalism) and Level Four (Classic Supernaturalism), with elements of madness and dream thrown in.

3. At this Threat Level, the machinations of the Lie become more clear still, and the characters become aware that three primary conspiratorial groups are the motivating forces behind the war in the shadows - Orion, a conspiracy formed of the originators of the Great Lie, turned to manipulating the world towards their own selfish ends; Artemis, a society of free-thinkers and anarchists that represent the opposite moral axis from Orion...and in the doing resemble their enemies more than they care to admit; the Outsiders, remnants of an ancient race that survived a previous incarnation of the universe.  The Outsiders seek the nihilistic end of all life in the universe, and unlike equivalent Lovrcraftian entities, they can focus their attention on even human-scale enemies.  Characters represent a fiurth axis, tied into the structure of the Lie itself, acting as 'antibodies' to the 'infection' the Outsiders represent, and the delusion of the Lie.

4. At this level, the characters are aware of and capable of confronting the conspirators on their home ground.  Common supernatural threats are common, and often characters have equivalent capabilities, though not without a cost to their sanity and lives.  Reality becomes flexible and extremely cinematic at this Threat Level, though the characters are only maginally capable of confronting the masters of the various conspiracies.

5. The characters have become archetypes within the shadow war itself, forces to be feared by even the masters of the shadows.  At this level of reality, the characters become aware that the Lie is unravelling, perhaps even in response to their own actions...and that it's not a bad thing.  The possibility of a 'rebirth' of reality, and a finer, different world beyond it becomes something desirable, despite the staggering personal cost.

Design Goals
1. The Resolution Mechanic -- a basic Gaussian numbers system, involving random rolls and skill+stat versus a difficulty number.

2. Consistency in resolution as much as humanly possible.

3. A fairly light, portable rules set, than can be adpated as need be to fit the genre without losing its own flavor.

4. Rules that also plug into the game world. P:0 has magic and psionic powers, as well as high technology.  Rules need to reflect both the modern and Steam Age genres.

5. A comprehensive character generation system that is capable of creating characters from Joe Average to Bill Badass. As well, the system should be one that gives characters depth, a hook into the character's personality, as well as numbers.

6. Dramtic editing/action dice - whatever you want to call it, it's an ability that distinguishes the characters from those around them, representing their connection to the reality behind the Lie.  At lower Threat Levels, the ability is minor, but as the characters delve deeper into the mysteries of the world, so does their ability to affect it and even warp it become more pronounced...at a price.

7. As well, the system needs to be able to represent the various mundane and preternatural threats that can crop up. Everything from an alleyway mugger to a cosmic horror.

8. Last, the system should be scalable, representing the Threat Level mechanic -- let the challenges fit the characters.

[Jasper]

Sounds like you have all your goals set out clearly, which is definitely key thing to do -- not that you won't have to make adjustments, but it's always good to be able to go back to your original design doc and say "Oh yeah, I wanted to do it this way, and for this reason!"  

Exactly what kind of suggestions are you looking for?  Systems that accomplish something similar?  Or maybe slow progress here towards a working system (i.e. group design)?  You have a lot of specifications, for sure.  I can at least make die rolling suggestions...

If you want a gaussian distribution, the two best systems that I know of are (1) just rolling two or more dice, and adding them up.  The main disdvanateg is handling time.  You could add on skill level to this, or roll more dice with higher skill.  (2) is the familiar target number system, with variable number of dice and variable target for each die to get a success.  The disadvantage here is that one of your variables is cosntrained: can't be higher than or lower than die size -- unless you have more than one element influencing target number.    

That's a start for you.  If you could settle for basically hump-shaped distributions, though not normal, there are quite a few others.  

What do you mean by consistency in resolution?  You mean a distribution with a very big weighting towards the middle?

[Jack Spencer Jr]

Comment: I believe there was already an RPG puvblished with the name Zero. I haven't seen it myself, but it has been referenced by others. So you might want to consider another title.

Don't feel bad. I felt the same way when I found out that there was already an RPG called Blood.



EDIT:Whoops. I just realized the title is Protocol: Zero. In such case, use your own judgement, then.

[Jim_Hague]

Jesper,

Thanks for the speedy reply!  Let me see if I can clarify some things on this...

What I'm looking for is help with the system mechanics, first and foremost.  I'm looking for something that is flexible, but still tailored to the game world as presented.  I'm terribly acalculic, and as a result the numbers tend to flummox me a great deal.  I've got tons of research done on the porbabilities...but most of all, beyond the raw numbers, I want a system that's fun, even if I'm not reinventing the wheel.

As for consistency of resolution - a mechanic that can resolve non-combat skill checks, combat actions, etc.  A comprehensive mechnic that isn't watered down.  I know that d20 does it, but there's quirks with that system I'm not really comfortable with, such as a lack of decent base checks against stats, the level-based mechanic as a strict ruler of character development, etc.  I've got nothing against d20 for what it is...but it's not what I'd like for P:0.

What worries me a bit is that the consistent mechanic breaks down when dealing with the odd things in the system - magic, psionics, weird science and memetics/Ur.  All of those are tied deeply into the game world and the rationale behind the goings on (a sort of self-mcontained metaplot that PCs have a direct effect on), and I'm not sure a unified mechanic would work, or even be desirable in those cases.

[Jasper]

...but most of all, beyond the raw numbers, I want a system that's fun, even if I'm not reinventing the wheel.

That's certainly a tall order.  Now, I don't want to be overly blunt, but you're basically asking us to design your system for you.  That's fine, and maybe you'll get lucky.  For me, doing something like this takes dozens of hours just to start working on.  Now you say you've done a lot of research already and looked at the probabilities and so on.  I'd suggest that a better way to get us all going here, in order that we can give you some real help, is to get some kind of system up.  Doesn't have to be good, doesn't have to be original, doesn't have to fulfill more than one of your criteria.  But a starting place is really necessary.

A lot of your specifications deal with the uses of the system, and a lot of other (at least what I consider to be) "higher level" considerations.  Maybe you're trying to consider too many things at once, and it's (understandably) overwhelming.  I'd start with the die rolling mechanic itself, in terms of what your needs are, statistically, and go from there.   Really.


Oh, and not to plug my own stuff too much, but I recently assembled a guide to the statistics and uses of die rolling methods in RPGs, which you might find useful.  You can find it here.

[Jim_Hague]

Man, talk about starting off on the wrong foot on my part...

My apologies on that big, spammy post, previously; a lot of that stuff is yanked from old design documents and discussions on my own board on my site.  Part of the frustration for me is that we had on the design team at one point:

*A d20 maven
*A Physicst with a secondary degree in Mathematics
*A Narrativist player

The d20 maven would spit out 'why not d20' statements, the physicist threw a lot of the same maths in there that Jesper's using...except in a manner incomprehensible to me, personally.  The Narrativist tried approaching things from a character/story angle, and was often shouted down by the other two.  Yeegah.

In any case, distilled from the boards and design docs again, the basic, basic system:

Die Mechanic: 2d10, combined (not percentile) + skill + stat vs. target number

Maximum modifier from stat+skill: 20
Maximum roll possible: 40
Dice do not explode (reroll on 10).

Base Statistics:

Strength - carrying capacity, base melee and thrown damage, few skills
Health - survivability; resistance to damage, poison, shock, etc.
Agility - to-hit, defensive ability, most physical skills
Reason - memory, gross academic ability, logical ability, many mental skills.
Inspiration - perception, creativity. Awareness/observational skills and interpretation.
Will - mental resistance; measure of overall sanity.

Derived Statistics:
Stamina: Strength + Health; wound/hitpoint/vitality pool  
Spirit: Inspiration + Will; mana, spiritual vitality

Character generation uses a point buy system.

Base stats run from 0 (utterly useless) to 10 (peak of human perfection). The minimum stat a character can have is 1. 4 represents the average ordinary person, and is used as the base to compute costs. 5 represents the average player character.

Stat costs:

Stat Total      Cost to Reach      Cost Next Level

1                  -20                      10
2                  -10                      5
3                  -5                        5
4                   0                        5
5                   5                        5
6                  10                       5
7                  15                       10
8                  25                       25
9                  50                       50
10               100                      N/A

Skills are very broad and usually represent categories of skill proficiencies rather than specific skills. Skills are ranked from 1-10; 1 represents barely trained, 5 represents professional level, and 10 indicates the top of one's field.

Skill Total  Cost  Cost to Next Skill Level

1 5 5
2 10 5
3 15 5
4 20 10
5 30 10
6 40 15
7 55 15
8 70 15
9 85 15
10 100 N/A

[DevP]

The core of your system is basic/traditional, but I think that such is absolutely fine: it's what you want, go with it. Especially because you're not a "Rules Monkey", I suggest considering patching into some other generic system. My arguments for it:
* saves your work + time (esp. considering playtesting & balancing)
* focus on making the setting better
* support for other independent games (making them more attractive).
* increased market (users of system X will look at your product only because of its usability for said system - extra potential readers)
* you could talk with the designer of you system to make your product not a "supplement" but rather "SystemX-powered", s.t. the rules are integrated into the setting book in one unified package.
* you can also add customizations to an adequate extant system to make it fit your precise needs.

For these reasons, my big Opus thing is going to be as multisystem as possible. <g>

I think you can find a lot of systems that take your concerns into account. A few in particular does jump out at me write now - EABA, Action, Impresa - which fit your needs to varying degrees. I'd extol on them (and there would be no shortage of suggestions) if you were interested. But I want to look at one of two of your goals in particulr

As well, the system should be one that gives characters depth, a hook into the character's personality, as well as numbers.

What kind of hook are you looking for? Do you want comprehensive Virtues/Flaws that together would define a character? Do you simply want to make sure the hooks are accounted for in character creation, or give them some game/metagame effect?

Dramatic editing/action dice based on Threat Level.

What kind of "Dramatic Editing" are you looking for - is it equivalent to having some bigger reserve of "juice" the better off you are? Or are these specific effects desired?

Last, the system should be scalable, representing the Threat Level mechanic -- let the challenges fit the characters.

Do you mean the ability of the system to represent increasingly more difficulty challenges?

If you find some generic system *mostly* compatible, excepting perhaps these elements, then it is absolutely possible that you (a) write a rules extension of their existing rules to fit your needs (e.g. adding an attribute in EABA that covers Threat Level); or (b) write a rules addition which creates some mechanics that are orthoganal and separate from the others? (This may potentially reduce overall "consistency", but also increase modularity of the systems with setting. In my case, I'm adding a few such rules that are simple enough to be non-confusing but are aside from the other "resolution" rules.)

A sidenote on d20: I have no particular love for the system, but given the importance of Level (threat level), there's the interesting thought of only gaining its XP for accuring critical info, and you can only level up if you've used have adequate knowledge and used it to witness/instigate some subtle change. But in any case, as you don't seem to like it, don't worry about it.

[Jim_Hague]

Alrighty.  I appreciate the responses, first off - a differing perspective, if nothing else, helps me get my thoughts organized.  Now, I'll try to elucidate a bit:

*Character depth.  Far too often, characters in RPGs are defined by the numbers on a piece of paper.  I'm trying to think of ways to give them a bit of life, a hook for GMs to grab onto and run with and help the players of those characters not only get involved more immersively, but make it easier on the GM when crafting plots and story arcs.  Advantages/disadvantages seem almost de rigeur for this, but a thought occurs - why not have each player create an ultimate Fate for the character at creation?  What's going to happen to them in the end isn't as important as, say, how they get to it.

*Threat Level. Just a name, really, to represent the campaign style/power level.  The higher the Threat Level goes, the more removed from mundane reality the characters become, ultimately becoming almost archetypal sorts in their own rights, able to confront the masters of the various conspiracies on their home turf.  TL is not necessarily linked to character power; it's more a matter of 'realism'.  Higher TL characters are more aware of the nature of the world, and thus able to affect it in different ways.  To represent the distance from their fellow man, however, higher TL PCs begin to lose the ability to affect things on the more 'realistic' scale - their identities vanish, interacting to but something as simple as a newspaper becomes a task.  This effect is inverse to the TL of the campaign - the higher it goes, the less direct influence on 'mundane' reality characters and NPCs have, thus creating the need to work through individuals at other Threat Levels to achieve goals.

*Dramatic editing - the ability to have the right things in the right place at the right time.  As Threat Level escalates, the characters and NPCs grow ever stronger in their command of coincidence and synchronicity.  It's not an entirely conscious thing, I'm thinking.  Less a power and more an ability to affect events in the immediate area on a meta-level.  Bullets hit but not vitally, there happens to be something useful for the current situation right at hand, etc.

[Jim_Hague]

A sidenote on d20: I have no particular love for the system, but given the importance of Level (threat level), there's the interesting thought of only gaining its XP for accuring critical info, and you can only level up if you've used have adequate knowledge and used it to witness/instigate some subtle change. But in any case, as you don't seem to like it, don't worry about it.

Dev,

How would you suggest doing this?  I'm not opposed to d20, and indeed the possibility of something innovative with it (like Mutants and Masterminds) has both some appeal to me and satisfies some business concerns.  Unfortunately, there's precious few solid guidelines for roleplay-based advancement, which is a concept I'm also very much fond of.  Your point about modifying existing systems is extremely well taken...hell, a M&M conversion wouldn't be too out of line, perhaps...

[DevP]

How would you suggest doing this?  I'm not opposed to d20, and indeed the possibility of something innovative with it (like Mutants and Masterminds) has both some appeal to me and satisfies some business concerns.  Unfortunately, there's precious few solid guidelines for roleplay-based advancement, which is a concept I'm also very much fond of.  Your point about modifying existing systems is extremely well taken...hell, a M&M conversion wouldn't be too out of line, perhaps...

I know little about d20, and I'd like some help from anyone who'd like to.<g>

Regarding XP for roleplay, just list out those in-game behaviors (little rewards) and goals (big rewards) you want to encourage, and that's it. Perhaps paranoid behavior and scheming are good rewards, uncovering a mystery is a big reward, creating a new conspiracy is a big rewards, etc. Forget about all other rewards (for conflicts or whatnot).

Meanwhile, as for the level advancement, descrbing some skills/saving-throws/stats going down with advancement (such as social abilities), and others going up very quickly (the sort of "become a rebellious archetype" abilities).

Sorry for being vague, but I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable can pick this up a bit...

[DevP]

About Character Depth and Dramatic Editing: differing systems have different approaches for how to do these - maybe spending points, maybe mixed into giving players narrative power, sometimes mechanicstically (or with Ads/Disads) encouraging specific hooks or kickers.

Here's a brief mechanical idea:
* Define your Kicker (that which disrupts your TL 0 life and brings you to TL 1) and your Fate, and maybe some other thing (a Relationship, a Hobby, or something).
* The player has a Threat Level (a stat aside from whatever ones are part of the system).

The GM pays you 1 pip to make a mundane task like reading a newspaper (i.e. so mundane s.t. you wouldn't roll for it) a challenge based on your TL; roll over your TL to do it.

You pay the GM 1 pip to make something coincidental or synchronous happen (again, unbelieveable s.t. you wouldn't roll for it), and you want to roll under your TL.

Those other traits (Fate, Relationship, etc.) have some other mechanical effect, like being a source pips or otherwise giving player or GM right to use one of them to create a game-hook. (e.g. Player pays 1 pip and activates Fate: "I am not fated to die right now, and I do not. The bullet just goes straight through my skull doing minimal damage; I faint.")
'
It does come to mind that these rules can completely be "layered" over some other set of rules, if such is desired.

[Jim_Hague]

I like the ideas you've got on Fate - enough so that I'm starting a write-up on scratch paper on how the mechanic might work.  The first option is Fate: Die another day.  Quote: "Not...yet!  Not now!"  That, I think, will be a TL 3 ability.

Threat Level also defines Influence - the ability to affect the forces of coincidence and synchronicity.  You can't have more Influence than the current TL.  Once you start cresting, though what you've done, then the players and GM have the option to advance the Threat Level of the campaign.  If the TL doesn't advance, for whatever reason, the xp goes towards other stuff - skills, stats, whatever, within reason.  

It's a pool-based system, like Adventure!s Inspiration or the Mutants and Masterminds Hero Points, albeit with entirely different effects.  Right now, the more I think on it, the more I'm leaning towards an MnM conversion; I just need to find out what's open content in the book and what's not.  Chris Pramas, are you listening?

[Doctor Xero]

Two immediate responses:

1) Consider the following to represent the changes in metaphysical/mundane
interaction as player-characters increase in their understanding of The Lie:

bonus to metaphysical = 2 x Threat Level
bonus to metaphysical + modifier to mundane = 0

Thus, as player-characters gain bonuses to all their metaphysical skills they gain
equal penalties to their mundane skills.


2) The setting reminds me of a cross between *The X-Files* and *Neon Genesis Evangelion*
-- perhaps those should be possible inspirations for the setting as well.

Doctor Xero

[Jim_Hague]

Weirdly, we'd been playing for a couple of years before the first season of X-Files.  Still, I'd be remiss in not acknowledging its influence, alongside Call of Cthulhu/H.P. Lovecraft and the very excellent Dark Conspiracy RPG.  Here's a bit of background to flesh it out.  Bear with, it's rough stuff writing wise.

Basic rundown - all of the badness going on is due to a fracturing of time and space, caused by the Great Lie, a massive project enacted by the survivors of the Great War at the end of the 19th century.  Think about a realistic War of the Worlds.  Like League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, only not as nice.  The ecosystem is wrecked, 90% of the population is dead, and the Earth'll be a blasted wasteland devoid of all life by about 1945.

So the survivors, the heroes and villains of the Victorian Age, create this great engine, this thing made out of science and magic and little scraps of belief, and set about to turn back the course of time, to give humanity another chance.  They aim the rewind of history at 1066, the Battle of Hastings.  The Great Work...misses.  This is due to something hidden
at Masada, in the Middle East.  A spacecraft, a colony ship that crashed there several hundred years before the historical Christ.  It's got an active hyperdrive that acts as a sort of beacon to the Work, and the fracture spreads from there across the whole of human history, propagated by the Outsiders, the alien entities ultimately responsible for the War in the first place.

The ship, you see, crashed because it encountered the Outsiders on the edge of the solar system.  Crippled, it set down and hid at Masada, becoming, ultimately, the legendary Grail.  There's some stuff to do
with the Merovingians too, but we'll get to that later.

Flash forward to the present - almost a hundred years after the construction of the Great Work, also called the Great Lie.  The original
history (Call it History A) has been subsumed, hidden, with only the original survivors and a few artifiacts left laying around.  Almost every
conspiratorial group operating with a knowledge of what happened tries to
cover these traces up, because every artifact, every occurrence that questions the reality of the current history ('B') causes the Lie to falter that much more quickly.  And if the Lie fails catastrophically, then the whole shebang comes crashing down.  The Lie, you see, keeps the Outsiders from directly interfering with Earth, though they can work through minions, creatures, etc.


There's a bit more to it, of course - things like foci (artifacts of History A), loci (places of history A) and Historical Echoes (events of History A leaking, in a chnged form, into B)...but I'll get to those in another post.