Pyron's Final Fantasy Campaign

[Eric J.]

Hehehe... Uh.  Yeah.  I've recently moved to California from my former state, Nebraska so I have a lot of free time on my hands (well, discounting mountains of homework and my obsession with video games that match the title).  Anyway, aside from working on a card game, I've decided to try to execute this idea I've had for a campaign for a long time now.  It would basically be like a FF video game, but in a P&P form.  I'm going to work for months to construct a fairly linear Final Fantasyesqe campaign.

I'm looking for a system for it.  I could use a mediocre one that I've built, use an alreadymade system or do some research and make another system.  Here's what I know about the campaign so far:

It's going to be mostly pre-made.  Each sessions events are going to be mostly planned ahead of time.  I'm going to try to avoid the problems of railroading by giving them freedom within my design.

I'm basically assigning characters.  They're more like developed templates but they, basically, are being chosen for them.  So yeah, I'm writing the story, but they're essentially living it.  Each character is being customised to suit my players playing style and I'm making sure to get thier input.

So here's the plot.  It's basically made up of Final Fantasy cleques.  However, I think it will amount to a creative original story line.  The world is basically ruined, but empires have been rebuilt.  One in particular, the Merran Empire, has begun to dominate, thanks to its industry.  They discovered a type of fusion etc...  So a bit of steampunk and high fantasy.  So one of the characters has the power to bind demons... and this is really wierd so they go off etc. etc.

So the system-  Final Fantasy requires a really interesting system.  All of the ones I've found on the internet don't really capture the feel.  Here are my basic requirements:

It's should focus on combat resolution.  It must be flexible and allow for solid advancement, and custumisation to fit the campaign.  I'm half-inclined to use Heavilly modified D20.

Here's my system:

Each character has 5 attributes-

Ability-What it contributes to

Power-Attack, HP
Reflex-Defence, Evade, Block
Perception-Accuracy and Mg. Defense
Speed-Initiative and Evade
Special-(Different for each character)

Each character has a bunch of stats that increase according to premade tables: HP; Attack; Accuracy; Evade; Initiative; Defense; Mg. Defense

Fate points are the highlight.  They allow you to increase your abilities or gain new ones.

Actually custom d20 is sounding better and better.  But if you have any suggestions for anything or want more devlopment on the world, I'd be happy to respond.  I've put a lot of thought into this already, and I'll be developing it for the next few months so...

Anyway-
FF6 rocks.

May the wind be always at your back,
-Pyron

[clehrich]

Eric,

Given the previous thread about GNS and video games, it seems clear that not too many readers here know these games cold.  So you'll have to flesh out the background quite a bit if you want much feedback.

From the little I know about FF, it seems as though the essential parts from a play perspective are (1) fighting, (2) summoning things, and (3) predetermined story structure.  

It seems as though the summoning is really just a way-cool special effect, not something that involves actual interaction or anything.  If I remember right, the more times you summon something, the more effective you get at it, so you need a small mechanic for that, though you want a cap or diminishing return so that a single spell doesn't become a death spell.

For lots of fighting with lots of options, and the ability to tinker wildly with special effects and whatnot, have you considered the Champions base?  You could certainly restructure to your needs.  It doesn't inherently have a lot of flavor other than "a bit mechanical but fun," which it seems to me would serve this game well.

As to the last bit, I think you have a BIG problem on your hands.  First, you need to find players who are happy to sign on for the ride.  Second, in essence what you've got here is a railroad, however much you give leeway here and there.  If I remember right, you like this sort of thing: lots of prestructured GM control, get the players to follow along, etc.  For FF, this is probably indeed the way to go if you want it to feel like the video game.  But you have two very tricky tasks ahead of you:

1. Find players who fit the following characteristics:
--- Know the FF universe and love it
--- Are happy to go along for the ride so long as they get some good FF fun

2. Make the railroad the Orient Express, not Amtrak

The last is the hardest part, probably, but both are very difficult.  I very strongly recommend that you set aside a big chunk of your planning time to thinking and reading about how to construct the most lavish, luxurious railroad in the known universe.  

It's going to be mostly pre-made. Each sessions events are going to be mostly planned ahead of time. I'm going to try to avoid the problems of railroading by giving them freedom within my design.
I'm basically assigning characters.

Am I right that you once had a big back-and-forth with Fang Langford about a Star Wars campaign?  If so, it seems that the primary result was that you like the way you do things.  So be it, but stop claiming it's not railroading: it is railroading.  But railroading can be a blast if you are a very good performer and can get the players to go along with it.  Ken Hite is the best at it I've ever seen.  But you're going to need a lot of help with that as a style of GM-ing, because in some ways it's the hardest thing you can possibly try to do as a GM.

Hope I'm getting through.  It sounds from your post as though you want to start a game in which you railroad but pretend to yourself and the players that you're not doing so.  This will end in tears, I promise.  Just get on that railroad and blow the whistle!

Good luck -- you're going to need it, I'm afraid.

Chris Lehrich

[Sigurth]

I wonder if BESM (or BESM d20) would work for you.

Just a thought :)

[Eric J.]

Thank you.  You seem to understand exactly what I'm saying.  Just a couple of things:

(1) fighting, (2) summoning things, and (3) predetermined story structure.

Pretty good, but I'd construct my list of priorities like this:

(1)Mindbending Story
(2)Chocobos
(3)Sid
(4)Fast paced
(5)Fighting
(6)Linear plot centered around fighting something
(7)Good characters
(8)Complex original mechanic
(9)Magic
(10)An Airship

So yeah.  As for the railroading thing:  I'd like to think that I've come a long way since that Star Wars thread.  I'd like to attribute much of my new insight to the Forge.  But basically, there are two different ways to look at railroading.  THere is the type where you have a linear plot where the players have little control were the direction of it goes.  I think that this is what you're talking about.  Then there is type of railroading where you skew the players' decisions.  In the first example you may have an NPC that shows up at the end of an adventure to guide the PC to the next.  In the latter you will have a lameass NPC show up to help the PCs if they're in a particurally difficult Boss battle that they can't win due to GM error.

I'm going to have to be prepared for the first, but I can probably mostly avoid the second.

As for your conditions, I agree wholeheartedly.

1. Find players who fit the following characteristics:
--- Know the FF universe and love it
--- Are happy to go along for the ride so long as they get some good FF fun

Check and Check

2. Make the railroad the Orient Express, not Amtrak

With any luck I'll make it the California Zeffer.

May the wind be always at your back,
-Pyron

[Eric J.]

Yeah, I've heard some good things about BESM.  I'll check it out.

May the wind be always at your back,
-Pyron

[anonymouse]

(isn't this more a Theory post, too? anyway.)


BESM combat sucks. Sucks sucks sucks. Takes a great big limestone boulder and sucks it like a sucking thing.

Oddly enough, FF has a lot of combat..

I've been thinking about video games and how to (by my standards) properly emulate them in a tabletop experience. You should really be thinking of any Final Fantasy game as two seperate entities:

First Part: the narrative/story. Told through cutscenes and talking to random wandering people in cities. There is no player choice once you get to the cutscene, although it's possible to influence a change through game actions (going down the left path, going down the right, losing to the mid-boss, whatever).

Second Part: the combat engine. Combat exists to get you from one point of Story to another, and to take anywhere from 20 minutes to 2 hours to get you there, depending on the game. It is the "game" part, so you don't just sit there and watch the cutscenes unfold. Gives you something to actively do.

The two parts pretty much never mix.

Other thing: "FF6 rocks." Is that the specific FF you want to emulate? I really have spent a lot of time on this exact subject and done some playtests of my own, but I'm basing my conclusions on the inherent trends in all of the games, though mostly the PSX>present era. Could make a difference on whether or not any of this is super-relevent to you.

[Sigurth]

(isn't this more a Theory post, too? anyway.)


BESM combat sucks. Sucks sucks sucks. Takes a great big limestone boulder and sucks it like a sucking thing.

.

I wonder what kind of combat would best emulate anime/anime-like RPGs...

Exalted?

Good to know about BESM, though. I've always wanted to try it, but combat stinkin' wouldn't go well with my players.

[ethan_greer]

I'll pop in to say that you can get the BESM system for free - it's called Tri Stat DX and is available from Guardians of Order.

Also, Eric, you might want to do a search on Illusionism - because that's basically the type of game you're planning, and some of the threads about it might be helpful.  Illusionism, when done right, can make for an excellent game.  When done wrong, it can suck with the worst of them.

Good luck!

[Eric J.]

Thanks for all the good replys.  I'll start from the top.

(isn't this more a Theory post, too? anyway.)


BESM combat sucks. Sucks sucks sucks. Takes a great big limestone boulder and sucks it like a sucking thing.

Oddly enough, FF has a lot of combat..

I dunno.  I thought about it and since I'm asking all of this in the context that I'm actually going to play it/am working on it right now I figured that I would put it here.  This is more of a place to work on RPG stuff on a specific system while Theory is more of a place for mechanics and stuff.  But I could see it in either place really.

I've since pretty much had my heart decided to just use heavilly modded D20 since it has a pretty functional combat system and works well in conversion.

I've been thinking about video games and how to (by my standards) properly emulate them in a tabletop experience. You should really be thinking of any Final Fantasy game as two seperate entities:

First Part: the narrative/story. Told through cutscenes and talking to random wandering people in cities. There is no player choice once you get to the cutscene, although it's possible to influence a change through game actions (going down the left path, going down the right, losing to the mid-boss, whatever).

I don't like this idea because it takes away a lot of elements that P&P RPGs beat out video games in.  Instead of walking up to people and having them say a meaningful (or not) one-liner, I want it to feel like a developed world.  Immersion anyone?  I'm not trying to emulate the FF video games as much as I'm taking elements from its style and using them in a P&P setting.  I've reached these hypothesises:

1) Linear structure (They can't climb over mountains or swim accross lakes.)  The story's always taking them in a specific direction.

2) Premade characters.  This is so that each character can be integral to the campaign.  I can set up conflicts ahead of the game.  Besides, I tend to make better characters than some of the players anyway.  I know that that last statement will worry some people but it's just the truth.  My theory is that if it can be fun in an FF game, it can be fun in a P&P RPG too.

3) Original World.  This makes the characters important to it and such.  It also allows for a new and original conflict.  I.E. not- Defeat the Empire!

4) Original Mechanics.  Each charcter will have different abilities that will function in different ways.

But basically, I want the characters to interact with NPCs and make important plot decisions.

And yeah, Ethan.  Like I said, I love illusionism.  And that's what the FF series is all about.  

When I said FF6 rocks, I meant that...FF6 rocks.  It was just kindof there.  I love all of the FFs since 5 so I think everything will be cool beans.

May the wind be always at your back,
-Pyron

[hyphz]

D20 could be good for FF style combat, actually.  Basically it shares the trait with FF that the combat is very bland and random UNTIL the magic spells start coming in.

[Bankuei]

Hi Eric,

You may wish to check out the homebrew Zodiac Final Fantasy RPG, at:

http://www14.brinkster.com/zodiacrpg/

It happens to be a gamist delight that sent me and a couple of buddies back to an impromptu 10 hour marathon gaming session.

Chris

[sirogit]

If I was a player in the game, one thing I would REALLY like is a faithfull recreation of the Esper system in FF6.

I always thought it had great potential for RPGS, the whole, killing specific beings for power, inheriting their specific abilties, etc.

Reflect. And zombification/toadification/pigging being not such a rare occurence and not permanantly destroying your character.

Overall, I think it would make sense if you had a "Battle sequence" system, were people can take a pretty massive beating from nukes and reality distorting around them, but also a "non-battle sequence" system where a dagger can pretty much kill anyone.

[Eric J.]

Yeah, thanks for the link for the Zodiac.  I've seen it before and I've been trying to find it again.

As easilly as I could recreate the esper system from FFVI, and as much as I love that sytem, I feel that one of the fundamental aspects of final fantasy is a unique abilities system for each campaign.  This helps to keep the game fresh.

Here's what I have for a system right now:

Each character is customised by the GM before the game, background included.  Their class is too (D20).  However, the players aren't allowed to know how their character is going to progress.  They have no idea what their abilities will do when they reach level 20.  I've changed it to 30 levels instead of 20.  This should allow for more leveling up, which is a good thing, of course.  Each character has a unique ability system.

Now here are the changes I've made to D20 to better, IMHO, reflect what Final Fantasy is:

Saving throws have been changed to- Mg. Save; Physical Save; and Mind Save.

Skills and feats have been... how do I say... killed.

I've instituted D20 Star Wars's Vitality/WP system.  I do this because I like it.  Armour now normally applies to WP damage reduction.  

Int has been changed to Technical and Wisdom has been changed to Faith.  This is to better reflect their functions whithin th game.  In any case, I've always felt that Intelligance and Wisdom were more supplied by the player and were vastly more important than the other attributes.

Most characters can use their abilities at will without any kind of cost, but some characters have a restriction.  Heck, I'll just run through the different abilities of the characters:

Enos: Can bind demons and take on their abilities.  This is all to the expense of his 'soul' score which, if failed, can have some nasty reprocusions (possesion, etc.)

Ten: A seraph that can summon Evanites (summons).  They function much how they would in FFX.  However, they can only be summoned for certain causes.

Achan:  A master mechanic, Achan can build dozens of devices that can aide him and the party.

Nyx:  A master assasin, Nyx has many abilities that monks generally get, as well as thieves.

Nabil: A Paladin (Demon slayer) with a powerful sword that increases in power as Nabil increases in will.  Plus he gets lots of cool white magesque magic effects.

Jahan: Son of a Legendary bard, Jahan has the ability to play the 13 great songs of the world.  Each of them has a different effect, whether it be to calm fire or to confuse opponents.

So there you have it folks.  Hopefully my changes will change the system from being so deprotagonising, which is the worst part of D&D and one of the best parts of Final Fantasy.

May the wind be always at your back,
-Pyron

[Landon Darkwood]

Another FF game that seems fairly popular can be found at www.returnergames.com and looks like a Gamist cocktail to me - hard to drink, but it definitely makes you feel like you've accomplished something after you're done. :) I'm fairly impressed with the way that they've managed to model the universal components of the actual video games' mechanics. They're in the process of playtesting the third edition of the system now; there's a wiki up and stuff. Worth taking a look at, I'd say, if for nothing else besides inspiration.


-Landon Darkwood

[Andy Kitkowski]

DONJON, DONJON, DONJON!!!

I ran a Final Fantasy game (set in the world of FF6 JP/FF3 US- Kefka, etc) using the DONJON rules, and it really rocked.  It emulated the idea that you can have Gamblers, Techies, Swordmasters, Thieves, Summoners, Guardians, etc and have them all have the same relative amount of power in combat and out.

I'd definitely take a look at Donjon.  If after reading previews and reviews of it, it sounds like a game that you can get into, I highly suggest you give it a shot.

Good luck!

-Andy