Shock Bonuses, Half Sword, and Estoc

[Alan]

Hi Jake and Brian,

Can you clarify a few things about weapons?

1) Like many Mass Weapons, the Club listing says +x Shock (x=Dam Lvl)
I can't find a definition of Dam Lvl.  Is it Wound Level or is it total Damage before AV and TO?

2) Half Sword damage.  Does the +3 damage bonus ADD to the existing Thrust damage, or does it replace it?

3) At 48", the Estoc, seems to be a Long weapon; why does it say 1/2-sword under Length?

[Brian Leybourne]

Jake may well overrule me or prove me wrong, but this is how I play these...

1) Like many Mass Weapons, the Club listing says +x Shock (x=Dam Lvl)
I can't find a definition of Dam Lvl.  Is it Wound Level or is it total Damage before AV and TO?

Final damage level, after AV and TO, otherwise you would end up with some truly horrible shock bonuses even from minor wounds.

2) Half Sword damage.  Does the +3 damage bonus ADD to the existing Thrust damage, or does it replace it?

Adds to it, the idea is that half-swording help you get through the armor.

3) At 48", the Estoc, seems to be a Long weapon; why does it say 1/2-sword under Length?

Because the Estoc is a weapon that can only be wielded in a half-sword grip; it's essentially a swordish spear.

Brian.

[Alan]

Hi Brian,

Just a follow up about the Estoc -

So the effective length of the Estoc is usually Medium or Short, and the Thrust damage would be ST+5?  Yow!

[Brian Leybourne]

So the effective length of the Estoc is usually Medium or Short, and the Thrust damage would be ST+5?  Yow!

Well, no, since it's designed to be halfsworded I would use the damage as listed (like the Doppelhander, which also lists it's half sword stats).

But you might wait to see what Jake has to say about the Estoc. I've never used one in game and may be off base.

Brian.

[Jake Norwood]

Hey.  Brian is either right or on the right track, as usual.

) Like many Mass Weapons, the Club listing says +x Shock (x=Dam Lvl)
I can't find a definition of Dam Lvl. Is it Wound Level or is it total Damage before AV and TO?

Whatever I meant it as originally (got me...sorry), I'd say that wound level is the way to go, or at worst wound level after TO but before armor. It's horrible that I can't give you a straight answer off the top of my head.

2) Half Sword damage. Does the +3 damage bonus ADD to the existing Thrust damage, or does it replace it?

Adds to it, but only as a bonus against armor!

3) At 48", the Estoc, seems to be a Long weapon; why does it say 1/2-sword under Length?

It is a long weapon.  See the judicial duel between Lancelot and Gawain in Boorman's Excalibur to see these things and how they're used (well, how they're used in a movie, at least...).  The ratings given are actually in their pre-half-sword form.  The Grip, Length should read "2H long, can be half sworded" or something to that effect.  Grisly.

So the effective length of the Estoc is usually Medium or Short, and the Thrust damage would be ST+5? Yow!

Yeah, but only against armor!

Jake

[Pytorb]

So for weapons that are listed with one-handed and two-handed stats and can be half sworded, such as my characters weapon of choice the bastard sword (again) or the long sword, do you use the 1H or 2H stats when half swording?

[[MKF]Kapten]

I would say two handed, as half swording demands two hands to pull off. It would be counter intuitive otherwise but Im maybe wrong :-/

[Jake Norwood]

Good question.  Two hands.

Jake

[Mantis]

ok I've had a descussion with my group on this and I just wanted to ask a question to check.

While half-swording are you able to do prefom cutting damage?

[Richard_Strey]

I would say no. While half swording enables you to control your point much better and gives your leverage a huge boost, cutting suffers. It may be possible to pull of a vicious draw-cut, but no "conventional" full-arm cut.
I propose a simple experiment:
Take a stick of the appropriate length and whack a suited target with it. Now take your back hand off it, grab it half-way up the "blade" and whack the target again. See what happens to the power of your swing.
Remember that half-swording is mostly "wrestling at the sword", as the old masters called it.

[Lance D. Allen]

I'll beg to differ on the viability of the cut from the half-sword. It is not NEARLY as powerful as a normal cut, but it can be a useful technique in certain circumstances, from my limited experience. I'd cut the damage to about 1/2 normal. You're not going to cleave a leg with it, but it's still very possible to hamstring a man with it.

Anecdote: During a War Practice, I was legged, and was on my knees. When the press came, I was caught, unable to move, with opponents ignoring me mostly as a non-threat. I thought quickly, brought my strong hand up to the half-sword grip, and began chopping at the backs of knees and thighs, and thrusting up into bellies. (groin shots being discouraged in the SCA, yanno) Being ignored made it quite easy to bypass shields, I'll tell you. It is also extremely easy to parry anything you can see coming with that much leverage on your weapon, though someone did eventually manage to get around my sword and head-shot me for a kill.