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Author Topic: Amber and Fate (split from Fate RPG)  (Read 3688 times)
artofmagic
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Posts: 23


« on: February 18, 2004, 07:14:49 AM »

I loved Amber so much that when ever I make a fantasy game, I want to use Amber powers there.

6 powers and you covered everything.

But the problem here is that I do not want to use variants, I want to use them as-is.

Now Fate fantasy game, I do not like default magic systems, I want to use Amber.

You could take aspect Pattern, Trump, Sorcery etc. But I do not want to change them to skills. When you use Pattern or sorcery, you do not need skills to use them, you just use them.

And I do not want sorcery to be equally powerful as Pattern. When pattern initiate desides that magic does not work here, there is little sorcerer can do about it, but I also want that Sorcerer has more aspects to use so he can go hand to hand.

All I can think of is that Pattern use needs a minimum Aspect of 5, Trump needs trump aspect of 4, Shapeshifting needs 3 (here goes acting and disquise skills, perhaps healing etc.) Conjuration nees 2 and Sorcery needs just aspect of 1.

Has anyone used FATE for Amber that way that there are no Sorcery or Pattern skills. How well you use them depends on player description. I need really diceless use. Dices are for combat or basic skills.
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artofmagic
Member

Posts: 23


« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2004, 10:11:04 AM »

Conrad is a simple character.

Blood of Amber OOOOO
- pattern initiate
- some related skills.
- amber knownledge, perhaps fighting skills. lifespan, durability I donno.

Noble training O
- melee & manners
Noble inheritage O
- wealth and fame.

That's 7 aspects and 28p of skills.

Now he can use pattern the way it works on Amber, but no other powers.

Meredith the sorceror.

Sorcery O
- basic sorcery
- magic knownledges

Warrior OO
- good fighting skills

Attractive O
- and looks good
- seduction, charm

Trader OOO
- but mainly trader

So She is better fighter, has more charm and is a sorceror, but her power is quite slow compared to ever present Pattern. She compensates it with her wit and charm.
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2004, 10:15:15 AM »

The above posts were split from Fate RPG, a thread which is approximately a year old.

Artofmagic, please review the site guidelines sticky post at the top of the Site Discussion forum. It is very clear about posting to older threads. Please respect the standards of the site and always be careful to check the dates of posts you're responding to.

Best,
Ron
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artofmagic
Member

Posts: 23


« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2004, 10:31:49 AM »

Quote from: Ron Edwards
The above posts were split from Fate RPG, a thread which is approximately a year old.

Artofmagic, please review the site guidelines sticky post at the top of the Site Discussion forum. It is very clear about posting to older threads. Please respect the standards of the site and always be careful to check the dates of posts you're responding to.

Best,
Ron


I had no knownledge where the thread was as I found it with searh.

And I do not have a clue about the standards as I do not know what is the difference between rpg theory and indie game design.
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2004, 10:50:06 AM »

Hello,

I'm responding publicly so that this message can help all the new people who've arrived lately.

1. The forums have very specific purposes. Some of them have stickies at the top describing that purpose. Also, if you take the time to read some threads, you'll pick up the purposes pretty easily.

2. There is a sticky post at the top of Site Discussion that tells you all about how posting at the Forge is done. Older threads, for instance, should not be posted to.

The Forge is not a place to show up, read randomly, fire off quick reactions, or to provide uncritical opinions. It's a place for fairly slow, very focused discussion that's intended to stick around for future reference.

I moderate the general forums very harshly regarding these things. It's a different sort of moderation from most sites; we don't ban users or delete posts, for example. But people are supposed to act in a way which respects the common standards.

New members are always given some slack, because these rules are all relatively unusual and it takes a while to learn them. But I ask that new members all do the site the respect of taking the time to learn those rules and standards, before posting to multiple threads.

Best,
Ron
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iago
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2004, 12:29:18 PM »

ArtOfMagic,

I'd love to help you here, but I think your implementation priorities are pretty divergent from mine when it comes to running Fate Amber.  I've given you what I can in the "the way I do it" department ...

I think you'd be just fine saying that "power-granting" aspects don't have skills associated with them, and just resolve their use dicelessly -- then have your players build the "mundane" side of their characters with a handful of phases/aspects/skills to the side of that.  Which is, I think, pretty much what you've been saying -- so I don't have a lot to add to that! :)
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Rob Donoghue
Member

Posts: 146


« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2004, 07:11:21 PM »

I did a d6 versionof amber a few years back, and some of the theories behind that can apply just as easily to a Fate implementation.  I think you'll find that while you don't _need_ skills, they can complement things nicely.

Assuming you want to keep the DRPG concept of basic and advanced powers, and perhaps the common idea of Partial Powers, you could easily enough say:

1 Aspect in pattern = Partial pattern. The character can shadowwalk, barely, but can't hellride, or engage in anythign but the most clumsy of probability manipulation.
2 Aspects in Pattern = Basic Pattern, as described in the DRPG
3 Aspects in Pattern = Advanced pattern, again, per the drpg
4+ Aspects in pattern = Exalted pattern, probably off limts.

Without taking any skill, you are assumed to be able to do all the things the power describes. But if you assume there is a "Pattern Use" skill, most peopel have it at the default, it can be used as a measure of how quickly and well the character can use the abailities available to them.  What this allows is a somewhat finer definition between characters, rather than making every Advanced Pattern Initiate the same.  It allows for handy passive things liek determine who can get through shadow faster, or who can more deftly alter local laws.

The exact same model can be followed for Logrus or Trump.  Shapeshiftingmay introduce some complications, dependign on how you want to use it, but eve it's goign to be pretty simple.

Sorcery (and by extension, Conjuration) introduces its own set of complications, mostly hinging on how you want it to work in the setting.  The easiest solution is simply this: Sorcery is a one-level aspect, and your "Magic" skill represents how many spells you can hang at a time (or how many items you can keep powered).

However, I admit to feelign that sorcery, as presented in the DRPG is a little lame, and not really representative of any sort of truly magical feeling.  For that, I would propose the following: Use the Stunts system, as showin in the "Great Lighthouse" example in the Fate text.  Basically, each aspect of sorcery represents one "School" of magic, with stunt boxes representing effects avaialbe to them.  Sorcerers may have more thanone aspect in SOrcery,but it never makes it more powerful, it simply makes it more versatile.  For exampl, if bob the mage has one level of Sorcery, it might mean he knows Fire magic.  If he has 2 levels, it means he knows Fire magic and Wind Magic.  (As aside, if you want to keep the idea of preparing spells, you can still use this idea, but replace "Stunts" with "Spells Hung" throughout)

Since my thinking is that sorcery may be very powerful in some locations, but weak or useless in others, and must take second fiddle to the major powers, one more step must be taken.  The source of the power must be determined.  The nature of that source represents a limit on the characters power, and a weakness that the Greater powers do not have.

Options for sources include:

Magic of Shadow: The character is skilled at drawign on the power of whatever shadow they're in to fuel their magics.  Shadows will be rated by the GM on a scale fom 0 to infinity, and that rating represents the maximum number of stunts available to the character whiel they're there.  Thus, if a shadow has a 3 rating, and Bob the mage, who has 5 stunt boxes, comes in, he effectively has only 3 boxes.  Shadows may have their own limitations on magic (So a strongly fire-aspected shadow might have a rating of 5, but only allow effects that coudl be considered to be fire related), and it may take some time to learn the ins and outs of a new shadow (though Amberites and Chaosians might be assumed to have a natural affinity to pickign this sort of thing up).  This is probably the most common power source for shadow magi, and it's vulnerable to majr powers altering the shadow rules.

Item Of Power: The character has some item or talisman which they draw power from, and without it, they have no access to their stunt boxes.  Most items will have only a few stunt boxes, but things like spikard could have vast resources.  The benefits of these items are obvious, but they are also coveted by other sorcerers.  The GM shoudl mak ea point of being very careful about allowing any items with more than one or two stunts.

Generating Power Source: The character has a power source somewhere in shadow which they can draw from, in an amount relative to their proximity to it.  In the shadow or its environs, the character gets full stunts, but they lose them as the move farther away.  As a good rule of thumb, determine how many boxes th echarater gets in Amber and Chaos, and base the diminshment on that.

Rechargeable power source:  The character has a power source they can go to to "charge up", like Jurt does with the Fount.  After the character recharges, they have access to all of their stunts, but when they use them, they don't get them back until they return to the source to recharge.

Patron: Some creatures or beings of power might be able to grant sorcery to their followers.  This works in the same manner of a Generatingin Power Source, except utility is based on the patrons influence in the shadow in question, rather than its proximity.  It also may be subject to the whims of th epatron.

A note on Pattern/Logrus and Sorcery - Pattern and Logrus can be generating power sources, and they are among the only sources to be equally accessable throughout shadow.  However, Pattern and Logrus Sorcery are mostly only useful for doing Pattern and Logrus tricks faster (Like Fiona's shortcut).  More often, powerful Logrus and Pattern initiates take Magic of Shadow stunts, then change the local laws to grant them the power they need.

Sorcerers may have their stunts come from multiple sources, though how much they want to trade of security with raw power is up to the individual.

Anyway, it's just a skeleton of an idea, but I hope it helps.

-Rob D.
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Rob Donoghue
<B>Fate</B> -
www.faterpg.com
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