The Forge Forums

It occurred to me that 2011 is a significant anniversary for me. I published the first available version of Sorcerer in fall 2006, and I published the book version in 2001. That makes the upcoming year the game's 15-year and 10-year anniversary, at the same time.

I'll tell you what I have in mind and you can tell me what you think.

1. A new version of the core book which preserves all the original text, but includes extensive annotations from my current perspective. It might have new art and cover too.

2. A deluxe custom version of the above, very spiffy.

3. Versions of both of the above in Italian, which are currently in contract negotiations. I'd like to push for some other translations as well, specifically Spanish, German, and Japanese.

4. A long-overdue update of the non-Adept supplement policy, with a much better website-based support system. I'd like to write some kind of Guide & Advice document, without it being a laundry list of requirements.

I'm not sure what, if anything, I'd like to do with the supplements. I'm happy with their content and not inclined to re-write or annotate them. Nor am I inclined to combine them with the core book. Perhaps bundling them into one big book? Suggestions are welcome as long as you remember that no one pays me to do this and my time constraints are significant.

5. Some kind of artistic consolidation at the Adept site ... I've always wanted to promote visual expression of the concepts in the game, as diverse as possible. If I could get some kind of artist's gallery along the lines of a miniature Elfwood.com, that'd be really cool.

Best, Ron

Sounds keen.

If there's anything I can do to help with any of the above steps, please let me know.

I'd love having all three supplements in one hardcover.  I'm very hard on my Sorcerer books.  It's one of a handful of games I repeatedly play.  I always take them with me when I travel.  My copy of Sorcerer & Sword is extremely worn and one page of my Sorcerer core book is kind of loose.

So yeah, new annotated core book plus compiled supplements would be appreciated.

Jesse

Ron, you said new cover and I thought that would be neat, then by the time I finished reading everyone's replies, I swear I was hit by the most ridiculously cool idea for that ever. (I honestly don't know that it would work, or whether you'd want me to do the cover again, but fuck do I want to try it now because I almost never have ideas hit me full-formed that fast.)

Anyways, a artists' gallery would be awesome. And I have no idea if it would work, but perhaps sections for prose and short visual media as well? A submission gallery for links to things other people have made that say "Sorcerer" to them (rather like the links section on the old site, actually). What else are you thinking of for the site? (I know the original site had some grandiose plans for various things that never quite "made it": the character/demon repository, a section for one-sheets, definitely site support for the minisups, etc.)

Cool. 

1. I would buy it for the annotations and especially if there was new art (nothing wrong with the old art, I just want MORE Sorcerer art).  I agree with not combining the Adept supplements with the core book.

3. I'd buy one in Italian, just cuz.

4. Ya, it's probably best to manage/guide the development of non-Adept supplements as loosely as possible.  Don't want to constrain anyone's creativity. 

*re-reading*  Okay, it looks like no major changes are in store for & Sword and Soul.  Good, I was just about to order them (I've been getting by on borrowing Ry's til now), and I don't want to have to wait for Anniversary Editions!  Although (datapoint), if an all-in-one hardcover of the Adept supplements was available now, I'd probably go for that.

Cheers,
-John

The n. 3 is the one that I wanted to suggest...
Then I read it. :-) Sorcerer in Italian! Cool!

Especially if combined by n. 1... Hell yeah...

Quote from: Ron Edwards on July 28, 2010, 04:23:17 PM
1. A new version of the core book which preserves all the original text, but includes extensive annotations from my current perspective. It might have new art and cover too.

Ron, I would buy a new one just for that.  That would allow me to loan out my old one to one of my students who might be interested.  Incidentally, didn't you publish the first version in 1996 instead of 2006?

As I recall, 1996 was the free "send me a couple bucks if you like this" version. Or in modern parlance "the ashcan", I guess. I, too, was confused as hell what Ron meant by "I published the first available version of Sorcerer in fall 2006" and assumed his brain did a date-mixup misfire and he meant 1996.

That or he's become a Time Lord and this keeping track of time-stuff in-the-right-order is just too much a bother.

Quote from: Troy_Costisick on July 31, 2010, 03:24:31 AM

Quote from: Ron Edwards on July 28, 2010, 04:23:17 PM
1. A new version of the core book which preserves all the original text, but includes extensive annotations from my current perspective. It might have new art and cover too.

Ron, I would buy a new one just for that.

Same here. Browsing the Wiki is less handy than a new book.

Hi Ron,

Happy anniversaries!

The curmudgeoney, uncharitable and somewhat fatigued consumer in me really dislikes the notion of a "new and improved" edition of the Sorcerer core book.  This jaded part of my personality is just that: a part; it's a large enough part of my emotional wiring that the product wouldn't appeal to me, but it isn't so large that I'd get all huffy and (say) boycott your work.

For whatever reason, the "deluxe" version doesn't rub me the wrong way; maybe because I'm picturing it as a coffee-table book, and the notion of Sorcerer being on display in some cocaine-fueled 80s party scene in a Michael Mann film appeals to me on a very perverse level.

Now, the rest of what you wrote has me jazzed.  Branching out into other language markets is wonderful.  This is new territory, and feels new, and exciting.

The supplement policy is doubly so.  Here's a way that's going to help me get my hands on new content, wider & whackier ways to hack Sorcerer, and hopefully lead to more new stuff like Dictionary of Mu.  That's really important, and I like the "jamming with Ron" vibe it sets up in me.

Curmudgeonly,
Darcy

Quote from: Ron Edwards on July 28, 2010, 04:23:17 PM
It occurred to me that 2011 is a significant anniversary for me. I published the first available version of Sorcerer in fall 2006, and I published the book version in 2001. That makes the upcoming year the game's 15-year and 10-year anniversary, at the same time.

I'll tell you what I have in mind and you can tell me what you think.

1. A new version of the core book which preserves all the original text, but includes extensive annotations from my current perspective. It might have new art and cover too.

4. A long-overdue update of the non-Adept supplement policy, with a much better website-based support system. I'd like to write some kind of Guide & Advice document, without it being a laundry list of requirements.

Awesome!

Congrats on the anniversary for each. Sorcerer is an awesome concept.

I'm particularly interested in #1 because of the annotations.

I'm also a big fan of an updated website support system. I think that Sorcerer is hard for some folks to grasp (heck, I still don't know if I "get it" or not) and any sort of support and advice would be welcome.

I'd like to see Sorcerer become more "mainstream" somehow. Don't get me wrong -- any game that survives for 15 years isn't just a flash-in-the-pan -- but it certainly seems to be a small niche game and I'd like to see it get more exposure and maybe more creative minds will put togther more materials for it. I know that the supplement area has been mostly explored (except for Sorcerer in Space, which I still hope to see printed someday) but there certainly is room for more mini-supplement campaign settings or scenarios. Seems like there aren't many folks who have played the game and it would be really neat if we could somehow spread the word to more players.

Also, I'd like to have more Sorcerer items out there so I can spend my hard-earned money faster. :-)

I would buy a new version of the core book too.  No question.

Congrats on the anniversaries.

As someone who owns the book & all supplements:

I'd totally buy a new, annotated Sorcerer, no question. I wouldn't buy a version of all the supplements together, but then mine are in fine condition. If I didn't have them, I'd definitely buy them together. A good option for those new to Sorcerer (or the supplements).

Vindication!

Meaning, I remember suggesting this sort of thing to Ron and getting chewed for it some years back

Anyway, I like all of these ideas, but the one I like the most is the website thing. The current-new website of Adept Press is already very representative, but I'm pretty certain that anything that can be done to improve on that side is the bestest thing that could be done for the game in whole; Sorcerer is and probably always will be a growth phenomenon that matters most as something to be introduced to new people, and a solid website is a key tool in that in this day and age. A site that can speak with conviction about what the game is and how it's important is even cooler than new, sexy products for the game. Not that a new edition of the core book wouldn't be a geek orgasm for many of us, but, you know - we don't matter as much as new people. We don't need annotations, we already know how to play the game. And for new people the important bits are the clear argument for why this game is important, and the solid web support in terms of material (such as links to discussions already had) and active interaction. Those things sell the game.

Not that I wouldn't buy a dozen copies of an annotated edition at the drop of the hat, of course. Or an omnibus of the three supplements, or a deluxe edition. I probably wouldn't buy the Italian edition, though. Good ideas, all, still. I don't want to say that an annotated edition wouldn't be invaluable in bringing the game to the current generation, either; as I've said before, many things in the game could be said in different ways now that we have more perspective on the entire matter than ever before. I'm sure that Ron would produce an annotated product that would be very insightful in explaining the very things that have historically been the greatest hurdless in understanding the game. I also adore the whole idea of respecting the original text as a historical artifact and putting any new stuff into annotations; resembles some of the things we've done with our Finnish editions of games.

Thus: if you have to choose, as you probably will, on which of these things to do, I recommend getting the mini-supplement policy and web interfaces up to date, getting art and other resources of the game up to date and making a sweet, updated website or website section for the game. Something that celebrates the history of the game, its influence and the creatively valid heights to which it strives. A new, annotated edition of the game is a great follow-up for those things if resources remain.

And of course, if there's anything you need help on, let us know.

That sounds great, Ron. Sorcerer remains the game I return to most often, and I'm always prepared to play it. Like Jesse, my Sorcerer books are well used, but mine are still in good shape, but having a volume with annotations would be very helpful indeed. Especially when introducing new players to the game, which today is a matter of the books, tonnes of weblinks and PDF help sheets.

I take it you are only talking about the main rulebook,a nd not the supplements. Let me note that I would also be a happy buyer of an omnibus (Sorcerer + Sword + Soul + Sex), or a revised Sorcerer book plus the three supplements in one volume.

Per