Effect of knowing the Town Creation rules for players

[Falc]

I haven't run DitV for a while but I got some inspiration again. I'm trying to put together a game with at least one person who hasn't played before and I'm going to give her the book to read and get a feel for the game.

Now, the question I've been asking myself is whether or not I should tell her to read the Town Creation rules. I mean, it's all very methodical and well-structured and I'm just wondering what effect this knowledge might have on how the player would experience the game. It very much lifts the veil that sort of hangs over a town and exposes (at least in part) the inner gearworks. If you show up in a town and it's clear that there's Hate and Murder going on, well, you'd know that there's bound to be a Cult somewhere hanging around. And you'd know there's some Pride somewhere that's started it all.

I'm not saying this would necessarily ruin the game, but it does seem as if it would change how you play the game. Since I've already read the book, it's hard for me to imagine what it would be like to play without this knowledge.

So I'm wondering. I'm doubting. And I turn to you, to see if there's anyone with some advice to give, experiences to share. Are there people out there who first played the game and who then read the whole book? What effect did this have on your playing of the game?

[oliof]

I don't think it matters much. Thus is the beauty of the Town Creation rules.

The biggest give-away is the amount of demonic influence, and that is pretty much visible from the get-go.

[Joel P. Shempert]

Here's the thing: the Dogs are exactly supposed to be looking for that stuff in town. That progression from Pride to Sin to hate and Murder? It's followed by the statement "just knowing this much makes you a theologian!" This structure isn't just a handy procedure for creating a town, it's also the Dogs' guiding principles for rooting out corruption.

Check out my thread here in toe forum for some confusion that resulted in a player not being quite clear on that and going "demon possession! " at the drop of a hat.



Side point for Harald: the Demonic Influence dice are rolled based on the amount of wickedness the Dogs have seen so far, not what actually exists. So not quite a big give-away.

peace,
-Joel

[oliof]

Joel is right. Sorry to be confusing by a very short statement.

[Falc]

Here's the thing: the Dogs are exactly supposed to be looking for that stuff in town. That progression from Pride to Sin to hate and Murder? It's followed by the statement "just knowing this much makes you a theologian!" This structure isn't just a handy procedure for creating a town, it's also the Dogs' guiding principles for rooting out corruption.

Hmmm. You make a good and interesting point. However, in a way it has made me even more reluctant to let people read that section of the book, because I think this knowledge is better presented from an in-game perspective.

In other words, I want my players to read the text that Brother Michael, learned scholar and expert on demons, wrote 75 years ago, after he retired from his illustrious career as a Dog to teach in Bridal Falls. Not the text that Vincent Baker wrote to all the DitV GMs. Maybe it's a silly thing to get hung up about, but I think leaving the exact details of the town creation unknown is better for the play environment.

[lumpley]

I always give new players a quick rundown, like this:

"Okay, here's what the Faith says about problems in a community. It says that Pride leads to sin, sin lets the demons into the community, the demons will try to create corrupt worship, and if corrupt worship takes hold, the corrupt priest is a sorcerer. Since the purpose of the demons is to destroy the Faithful, sorcery almost always means murder."

I think that it's important to orient the players at least that much.

I've run the game for pretty experienced Dogs GMs, too, and their knowing the rules didn't hurt play a bit.

-Vincent

[Joel P. Shempert]

What Vincent's saying, that's pretty much what I was talking about. Doesn't have to be elaborate or comprehensive, just a general heads-up about the pregression the Dogs are looking for.

That said, you've got an interesting thing going here:

Hmmm. You make a good and interesting point. However, in a way it has made me even more reluctant to let people read that section of the book, because I think this knowledge is better presented from an in-game perspective.

In other words, I want my players to read the text that Brother Michael, learned scholar and expert on demons, wrote 75 years ago, after he retired from his illustrious career as a Dog to teach in Bridal Falls. Not the text that Vincent Baker wrote to all the DitV GMs. Maybe it's a silly thing to get hung up about, but I think leaving the exact details of the town creation unknown is better for the play environment.

So far we've been talking about conveying certain information, but how the information is presented is another matter! I'd say if you want to whip up a text by "brother Michael" as a prop to teach the progression, go for it! Sounds awesome. Any approach is valid so long as the players are informed, somehow, of their role in the game.

Peace,
-Joel