[Sorcerer] Hyborian Age as a S&S setting

[Vortigern]

I can see your point Antonio.

I have another thing I've been considering and that is just further thought on the use of sleight of hand and gadgetry etc.  More the 'lotus' stuff.  Once I stumbled across the 'use powers to represent gadgets/substances etc.' the 'how' problem was kind of solved.  But now I'm wondering how you establish a baseline of how you decide how many any given sorcerer might have or how they can replinish.  Rather than delve into some sort of crafting rules or just leaving it at the discretion of the guy running the game I've been thinking linking it to one's Lore might be a good idea.  Perhaps a fixed ratio of lore to the number of substances you know how to make and how many doses you have available to use in any given scene ( or set of scenes ) before you have a chance to replenish.  Another option would be with Cover I suppose, if your cover was appropriatte?

[Ron Edwards]

Finally getting around to this ...

Anyway, I went to the text and was relieved to see that it found what I thought it said, although perhaps not enough. I also think I see how a certain mis-reading has become common. I struggled with this text because, well, it was a long time ago, and I hadn't written Trollbabe yet. I think it's fair to say that Trollbabe was conceived in the effort it took to write this part of Sorcerer & Sword.

The text in Sorcerer & Sword is based on the observation, not that the sword-and-sorcery hero excludes most of the world from considerations of fellow humanity, but rather that he* tends to glue people to himself all the time, specifically those who happen to be in dangerous situations with him. One sort of hero, like Conan, is a constant confirmer of friendships; another sort, like Elric, is a constant betrayer of friendships. The point is that they both form such friendships at the drop of a hat. I say friendships here, but it's a very broad category. I would even include antagonists in this category, basing that on the death of Thak, which I quote elsewhere in the book.

Best, Ron

* I usually use "he or she" construction, but in this sentence, the multiple pronoun phrases made it cumbersome.

[rabindranath72]

I can see your point Antonio.

I have another thing I've been considering and that is just further thought on the use of sleight of hand and gadgetry etc.  More the 'lotus' stuff.  Once I stumbled across the 'use powers to represent gadgets/substances etc.' the 'how' problem was kind of solved.  But now I'm wondering how you establish a baseline of how you decide how many any given sorcerer might have or how they can replinish.  Rather than delve into some sort of crafting rules or just leaving it at the discretion of the guy running the game I've been thinking linking it to one's Lore might be a good idea.  Perhaps a fixed ratio of lore to the number of substances you know how to make and how many doses you have available to use in any given scene ( or set of scenes ) before you have a chance to replenish.  Another option would be with Cover I suppose, if your cover was appropriatte?

This is what I am going to do for my games, depending on the setup of the scenario. The most important thing is, however, that these items are never sold. There are no sorcery shops!

1) True to the Howardian stories, the characters already start equipped with these sorcerous items (think Taurus with his lotus poison in Tower of the Elephant)

2) The characters can try to acquire the item as part of the scenario (think the d20 Conan version of Tower of the Elephant, where the PCs can steal the lotus poison from the Stygian caravan)

3) The characters can try to craft the poison, but they need to acquire the ingredients, which could be an adventure in itself (e.g. travel to the demon-infested swamps of Stygia). To craft a poison, I would use contest of Lore vs. Power of the poison (the more powerful it is, the more difficult is its crafting). If you want to "simulate" the character searching for the ingredients, I would probably still use Lore vs. Power (the more powerful the poison is, the most difficult it is to find the ingredients; think black lotus) with the number of victories being the number of doses which can be crafted.
If the crafting roll fails, perhaps the character poisons himself!
For damaging substances, I would assign a Power of at least 4, and assign them the Special Damage: Lethal category.

One thing I would not do is make these items available for free, or easily produced.

Cheers,
Antonio

[rabindranath72]

Finally getting around to this ...

Anyway, I went to the text and was relieved to see that it found what I thought it said, although perhaps not enough. I also think I see how a certain mis-reading has become common. I struggled with this text because, well, it was a long time ago, and I hadn't written Trollbabe yet. I think it's fair to say that Trollbabe was conceived in the effort it took to write this part of Sorcerer & Sword.

The text in Sorcerer & Sword is based on the observation, not that the sword-and-sorcery hero excludes most of the world from considerations of fellow humanity, but rather that he* tends to glue people to himself all the time, specifically those who happen to be in dangerous situations with him. One sort of hero, like Conan, is a constant confirmer of friendships; another sort, like Elric, is a constant betrayer of friendships. The point is that they both form such friendships at the drop of a hat. I say friendships here, but it's a very broad category. I would even include antagonists in this category, basing that on the death of Thak, which I quote elsewhere in the book.

Best, Ron

* I usually use "he or she" construction, but in this sentence, the multiple pronoun phrases made it cumbersome.

Interesting points. I was actually thinking that a good definition for Humanity might be Camaraderie or Affinity. This would certainly include the case of Thak, or even Conan toasting to Balthus' dog, Slasher:
"I drink to his shade, and to the shade of the dog, who knew no fear." He quaffed part of the wine, then emptied the rest upon the floor, with a curious heathen gesture, and smashed the goblet. "The heads of ten Picts shall pay for his, and seven heads for the dog, who was a better warrior than many a man."

[Ron Edwards]

Oh, Slasher, totally.

Best, Ron

[Erik Weissengruber]

[/quote]
Interesting points. I was actually thinking that a good definition for Humanity might be Camaraderie or Affinity. This would certainly include the case of Thak, or even Conan toasting to Balthus' dog, Slasher:
"I drink to his shade, and to the shade of the dog, who knew no fear." He quaffed part of the wine, then emptied the rest upon the floor, with a curious heathen gesture, and smashed the goblet. "The heads of ten Picts shall pay for his, and seven heads for the dog, who was a better warrior than many a man."
[/quote]

For anyone looking to define their sorcerers' Lore scores, "curious heathen gestures" might be a good start

[rabindranath72]

For anyone looking to define their sorcerers' Lore scores, "curious heathen gestures" might be a good start

Nice suggestion. In fact, in my next game two characters will not be "sorcerers" in the strict sense, but will be people somewhat knowledgeable about the existence of weirdness and probably steeped in mythology, so that would be quite appropriate.

[rabindranath72]

A bit of thread necromancy

I am writing an Hyborian Age setting book for Sorcerer, so I have been reading all the Conan stories by Howard to pick quotes and ideas.
I happened upon this nice bit:
[quote from Hour of the Dragon]"A Nemedian priest loosed black magic again in the streets of Tarantia to slay men who still were loyal to your memory. I myself saw it. Armed men dropped like flies and died in the streets in a manner no man could understand. And the lean priest laughed and said: 'I am only Altaro, only an acolyte of Orastes, who is but an acolyte of him who wears the veil; not mine is the power; the power but works through me.'"[/quote]
Here it seems we see necromancy at work. What's intriguing is the "conferring" of power through a chain which goes from Xaltotun (I suppose) through Orastes to Altaro, and I was wondering whether this could be considered:
1) a general ability of all sorcerers, which perhaps could Pact with each other
2) a "dramatic effect" which happens only in this story.

For 1), I would say through a chain of Lore scores, from higher to lower. So, Orastes makes a Pact with Xaltotun. And Altaro makes a Pact with Orastes. This effect makes it possible for any acolytes to Boost Lore up to the level of their master for a limited time.
For 2), The act of Necromancy to raise him by using the Heart has created a Token which is then used to Boost Lore (perhaps through a chain as above).

So, what is your idea/opinion?

Thanks,
Antonio

[The Dragon Master]

Mind you this is conjecture as I haven't read the Sorcerer and Sword book, but as I understand it, in that book it talks about sorcerers becoming demons. Seems to me that you could treat it as Altaro is a demon who was bound by Orastes, when Orastes became a demon he was bound by Xaltotun. That would put it in simpler terms, though it doesn't quite capture the "flavor" of the text. Just thought I'd throw it out there since there don't seem to have been any responses to it yet.