The Winter of the Forge looms near

[Alfryd]

Hi everybody,

I aim to move the Forge into its winter stage by the end of the year. For those of you who don't know this, I announced quite a while ago that the Forge was never intended to be a permanent site. Especially since, well, bluntly, I (and Clinton, and Ed Healy, and a lot of other people active at the founding) have unequivocally won the battle we wanted to win. "The Big Bang has Bung," I like to say.

Uh... I'm kinda new here, and I don't dispute that the theories expounded and developed here have had a tremendous impact, but... I just don't see the compelling benefit of closing down the site entirely (which presumably happens at the end of the Winter phase.)  I mean, regardless of whether you've 'won' the battle you originally intended to, the knowledge and discussions that take place on the forge is a great resource that, to my knowledge, isn't readily available anywhere else on the net.  There will, presumably, always be indie games designers struggling to get their ideas off the ground, and ways in which RPG experiences can be expanded on and improved.  As long as that's the case, I wouldn't forsee the forge becoming obsolete.

I mean, in one of the earlier threads, I think you mentioned that "I can't hold hands and wipe noses forever".  Well, I mean, fair enough, if push comes to shove and you feel obliged to rescind your role here for personal reasons, I can understand, but I don't see why that requires taking down the site as a whole.  Are there no other moderators that you feel you could entrust the general task of 'stewardship' to?

[Callan S.]

Hi Alfryd,

It's going an archive format, as I understand it, so it's not dissapearing. How to actually organise that archive though so it doesn't dissapear out of being an information chaos, I'm baffled on that one. I've had a couple of lists of threads, but they are pretty idiosyncratic to me, not exhaustive and I think the first list is on my old hard drive, sitting on the shelf. I think plenty of talk has been done - it's getting at it via archive that seems a problem to me.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Morgan,

One step at a time. I have my own notions about the eventual archive, and they're good enough to develop in the possibly lengthy time remaining to the forums. There's no point in getting anxious about the Forge simply disappearing. I aim for more of a legacy than that.

If anyone wanted to set up their own website for people developing their games which tapped into that archive, that'd be quite nice. I am considering doing something of that kind myself, and as I see it, more than one center or sub-center for such activities would be a good thing.

Best, Ron

[contracycle]

I don't think any structure or body of thought survives as a real and effective force without human activity.  Only people, engaged and involved, and organised, keep concepts current and relevant.  In shall wait and see, but I hope this doesn't amount to disbanding the regiments that won the battle and thereby ultimately losing the war.

[Alfryd]

I don't think any structure or body of thought survives as a real and effective force without human activity.  Only people, engaged and involved, and organised, keep concepts current and relevant.  In shall wait and see, but I hope this doesn't amount to disbanding the regiments that won the battle and thereby ultimately losing the war.

That's sort of what I mean, yeah.  Digging through the archives is all well and good, but it's access to the participants in those debates and their insights that's the real resource here.  Sure, in theory, you could shut down the active site, archive the discussions, and essentially hope that enough forge-ites are willing and able to migrate to new sites devoted to the same general topic that you can see the same kind of dialogue taking place.  I just don't see the inherent benefits to that second diaspora.  The first diaspora was about- as far as I can gather- shedding undesireables to preserve the core of the community.  This is shedding the core of the community to save... what, exactly?

[Paiku]

I think the idea is that The Forge has accomplished a discrete goal.  That accomplishment is complete, it is wonderful, and now it is being diluted by ongoing lesser chatter and the constant buzz of newbies (I include myself) asking questions that have already been answered and amply explained.

I think a wiki based on, and linked to, the Forge archives will make The Forge's legacy more accessible and more likely to survive.

Yes The Forge continues to serve certain purposes beyond that original goal, and those purposes are worthy.  The idea of winding down The Forge is not meant as a belittlement of what it's doing now, but as a protection of it's originally-intended and hard-won accomplishment.

Also, note that The Forge is not NOW being shut down, only focused.  In it's winter, The Forge will continue to serve a subset of the story-gamers' population: those who develop and publish new story games.  Focus has value.  And I don't really see that ever needing to end - I think it will be a long winter.

-J

[Frank Tarcikowski]

On a more personal note. Seems like the right place to say this.

There are a lot of great people who have played a vital part of forging (heh) the indie developers'  scene around here, of which I consider myself a part even though I chose not to self-publish, mostly because I was too busy/incompetent/lazy to pull it off by myself. There are a lot of great people who have nourished the culture of discourse at the Forge, the way actual play is presented and analyzed, which is quite unique and worthwhile. Many of these people are posting very little these days, some others are trying to step into their footsteps but its hard.

However, there is one man who is holding all of this together with a titanic effort, and has been throughout the years. To me, clearly, there is no Forge without Ron and I wouldn't want anybody else to continue the cause, because that just wouldn't be the Forge. Ron, I've said it before, I haven't always agreed with you and sometimes I've been rather mad at you, but I have great respect for what you have achieved with the Forge and what incredible effort you have pulled off to do it. That's not to diminish the contributions of others, but I just don't see the Forge going on when you're gone.

So by all means I support the closing of the forums the day Ron Edwards will no longer be the content moderator of the site. Whatever people will go to thereafter, it will not be the same.

- Frank

[Frank Tarcikowski]

To me, clearly, there is no Forge without Ron and I wouldn't want anybody else to continue the cause, because that just wouldn't be the Forge.

Um, surely you already guessed that I meant continue the cause at this website.

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya Ron, Vincent,

3. Some of the First Thoughts functions and the Playtesting function will be combined into "Development," which is intended to be a very practical forum about games in design. First Thoughts will go the Archives and Actual Play will go back to where it once was, the top of the page, with an introduction encouraging first users to post there (and how).

I have a question about this Development forum.  Ron didn't mention waht would happen to the Publishing forum.  Would it be rolled into Development?  If a designer has an experimental or innovative publishing method they are thinking about using for thier game, could they bring it up in the Development forum for feedback from the Forge Community?  Is that something you would be comfortable in allowing once the redesign is done?  Or is the Publishing forum staying as is?

Peace,

-Troy

[Ron Edwards]

The Publishing forum will remain, unchanged.

Best, Ron