Any plans for Sorcerer

[Seth M. Drebitko]

 Are there any plans for continued support of sorcerer by Adept Press, or fans? I was just curious if there is anything like an updated edition, new supplements/mini-supplements. I had planned to do a write up on a tool box for game creation and play, as well as some rules for a bit more in-depth look into demons, there powers, and humanity.
The Tool kit was going to be given away as part of a series of theme based mini-supplements. The supplements were going to consist of 1-2 short stories to introduce the feel of the theme, a new look on humanity, new look on demons, and then new powers.

The first two supplements would be Skullduggery the practical guide to thuggery (a book on crime and corruption), and Seconds Before Death the practical guide to necromancy (…a practical guide to necromancy.)

I wanted to do these to stretch my legs in the publishing world so that by the time I get out of college I have a couple small works to my name, but would this even be desired? If this is not something people would like to see what would be?

Seth Bashwinger
Kobold Enterprises~Cannon what?

[greyorm]

There are a couple of Sorcerer projects in the works that I am aware of, such as Play Sorcerer, which sounds similar, in part, to what you are proposing.

I myself have a couple of mini-supplements running around in my head that I keep meaning to write out and detail (which has been made much more difficult by the loss of my Sorcerer book during our move this autumn...*cry* I'm still hoping to find it buried in an unpacked box in the garage inexplicably marked "dishes"). And we should all keep bugging Mike Holmes about finally finishing Sorcerer & Space.

I'd like to hear more about your Toolkits, though, they sound very interesting.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Seth,

Write'em! I am all in favor of people writing and publishing Sorcerer stuff, as long as it's referenced back to me and the books themselves.

I'll have to muse a little bit about your larger question. I have some serious plans regarding Trollbabe (the revised text is finished), and Spione continues on its planned way, but Sorcerer is a more complex issue. The answer is "yes," but exactly what is still baking.

Best, Ron

[Seth M. Drebitko]

I'd like to hear more about your Toolkits, though, they sound very interesting.

The first thing I am working on is the tool kit "Sorceror +" (a working title) which will consist of two halves. The first half of the book will be designed more as a play aid really digging in and helping give a step by step in-depth approach to the creation and running of a game.
The second half of the book is a little more complicated as it is my attempt broaden the market of Sorcerer without stepping on its thematic toes. As Sorcerer and Dangerous Journeys are two of my most favorite games (and only one is still kicking) I wanted to be able to help it reach more of an audience in the market by targeting the more popular areas of GNS. Rule extensions will be created to comfortably work in tandem with the core mechanics serving to reinforce the “feel” they provide while still adding a simulationist, or gammist bend to things. Essentially in my ideal outlook on a sorcerer rewrite the book would list a rule as follows:
“Scores”
(N) standard text for “Scores”
(G) Knacks a description of a broad free form skill system where a person buys a single rank in a knack which adds extra dice when being used. When a character vs character/npc conflict occurs whom ever has the more narrow focused of the traits gets an extra bonus dice.
(S) A step beyond the standard knacks put in place describes an actual skills system in which characters can progress multiple ranks into.
(Note the above is just a general example)
  Since obviously I can’t just go and reprint what Ron has already written I would be including in my “rules” under the first listing (N) “Please reference X book on blank page” This will insure that regardless of having the toolkit people will still need to buy Ron’s books. I thought of the idea after introducing Sorcerer to at least a dozen people who were supper psyched about the concept and began to sputter out at the in your face narrative style of play. By creating simple non intrusive modules that can snuggly work with the rules already in place I am hoping that Sorcerer will see less resistance and gain a lot more traction.
The follow up books will be a short story to set the mood, an introduction to some brief kickers for broad setting concepts, then a new fresh look at demons, powers, and humanity.
Any way that’s just the idea, I figured I would check before tackling the tool kit to make sure Ron did not have anything planned himself along the same lines.
Regards,Seth

[Finarvyn]

I know that I for one am in favor of any Sorcerer support we can get.

I am aware of the fact that Ron is really focused on quality control and doesn't want a bunch of hack booklets cranked out, but it would be really neat if some of the experts of the game could write up more mini-supplements for the rest of us to devour. I own every product I can find for Sorcerer (the rulebooks, Ron's expansions, and all 6 of the mini-supplements) and I simply find them fascinating.

Each setting is unique and puts a different twist into the game. The more the better, I say. :-)

[Seth M. Drebitko]

  Glad to hear! I will probably be posting rough sketch ups of ideas as I have the time because I am doing thing between work, and school. Right now I am working on a little set of optional rules to expand the mechanical depth of the game. Please remember the optional rules section of the project is to provide a more gammist slant on the core concepts of Sorcerer to give appeal to other preferences in the market also.

Right now I am thinking so far:
- Splitting Stamina into Brawn, and Grace, and splitting will into Brains and Presence.
  - The reason behind this is to merely provide a wider range of options available.

- Expanding on the players "cover" to provide a series of skill like traits that can be chosen.
  - This will act to appeal to some players feeling that a more "traditional" game must provide an outlet to fine tune their character.

- Providing expanded examples on humanity and "demons" in generic manor for development with a group, and expanded support for players using different "sources of power" in the same game.
  - Players of more traditional games generally tend to have the feeling of "their own cool thing" as part of what sets their character apart.

- Give expanded options for more traditional combat with an initiative system, hit points and such.
  - For some reason the initiative in standard Sorcerer does not rub some people the right way.

- Advancement rules that are more specific and incorporate mechanics much like the key system found in TSOY.
  - Many players enjoy the idea of having that tangible pool of experience to twiddle with.

(Again please note that I am not trying to say that Sorcerer as is does not jive with me, just that with the option of more traditional rules available more people may be interested in it that would not normally have been)

[5niper9]

Hi Seth,
when I first read through your list my initiate reactions ranged from "a bit more gritty - I'd buy that" to the other end of the spektrum "dude - you're twisting it's soul".

What I want to say is that I think if you proceed with all these changes, there won't be much Sorcerer in that game. I'm not worried about the first three points. They are all cool. But the last two are really the heart of the game. The advancement system is focused on the storyparts of the character and changing that alignment is changing what the game will be about.

Probably it would be easier to write a game about the relationship between sorcerers and the demons that fits the style you want to adress than trying to change Sorcerer to do that thing for you.

Regards,
René

[Seth M. Drebitko]

  Totally get your response but when I sat down to think about the actual implementation of an initiative method I probably spent the most of my time there. The reason I decided to implement something along the lines of the Keys in TSOY is because they are totally all about character development. The "keys" represent the drive and direction of the character and reward the player for pushing in those directions. One thing that is very important and will be kept is that players will roll against themselves to advance the "exp" will simply be tracked to indicate more specifically when they can roll.
  With that expanded explanation of the method I would be using does it make more sense? Also do you have any ideas on handling a more traditional approach that lets players track how close they are to getting to roll on new trait increases?
Regards, Seth

[Finarvyn]

I own every product I can find for Sorcerer (the rulebooks, Ron's expansions, and all 6 of the mini-supplements)

greyorm reminded me about Dictionary of Mu, and I can't believe I forgot to list it. A great campaign resource!

Probably it would be easier to write a game about the relationship between sorcerers and the demons that fits the style you want to address than trying to change Sorcerer to do that thing for you.

René has an interesting point, and one that I hadn't gotten from Seth's earliest posts. While I'm interested in expanding Sorcerer, I think that my own enthusiasm is more in line with understanding the pre-existing system rather than changing it into another system. Ron's supplements enhance the genre without changing the mechanics. I have this kind of discussion on the Amber Diceless boards sometimes, and it's always a tough call because there's a subtle balance between expanding options and redesigning.

In other words, examples and explanations are more useful to me than a new game. This doesn't imply that Seth's ideas aren't good ones, and it would be interesting to see how they implement in actual play, but if you change Sorcerer too much then it isn't Sorcerer anymore.

Hmmm. Must ponder this.

- Marv