Finishing up

[greyorm]

It's been a ride. Thanks everyone!

[Larry L.]

Thanks Clinton and Ron and Vincent for everything. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this cool thing. Thanks to everyone who figured out how to get their awesome game realized and into my grubby hands.

The Forge was not merely the thing which breathed new life into a hobby I was basically ready to abandon out of frustration. It was something really special on the entire Internet. Ron's moderation brought a unique combination of academic rigor, cutting through the bullshit which plagues 99.999% of online discourse, paired with a kind of straight-talking enthusiasm for a number of geeky pastimes, which given the topic at hand was necessary for any of this to be genuine or to matter. It brought together the shared expertise of hundreds of scattered subject matter experts who had probably never thought of themselves in those terms. It was a model for Internet discussion. It was what any hobby's community wishes it could achieve.

Everything is different and better.

[charlesperez]

Yes, it has been quite a time, both lurking these years and making the occasional post.

Charles

[Moreno R.]

I was hoping that someone would say what i wanted to write better that I would have. Thanks, Larry, I am adding my signature to your post, if you don't mind.

Thanks Clinton and Ron and Vincent for everything. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this cool thing. Thanks to everyone who figured out how to get their awesome game realized and into my grubby hands.

The Forge was not merely the thing which breathed new life into a hobby I was basically ready to abandon out of frustration. It was something really special on the entire Internet. Ron's moderation brought a unique combination of academic rigor, cutting through the bullshit which plagues 99.999% of online discourse, paired with a kind of straight-talking enthusiasm for a number of geeky pastimes, which given the topic at hand was necessary for any of this to be genuine or to matter. It brought together the shared expertise of hundreds of scattered subject matter experts who had probably never thought of themselves in those terms. It was a model for Internet discussion. It was what any hobby's community wishes it could achieve.

Everything is different and better.

What the forge did, for me, was to show me that the hobby I was leaving behind, disgusted by what it had become, had worth after all. That it could be something better, with better instruments, better procedures and better practices.  That it was not necessarily poisonous.

I did sign up in early 2006, so this mean that I was here for more than half of the forum history. There is more Forge with me than without me. It's strange to think about that, I am still seeing myself as the new guy who has to go read the old posts to understand what the others are saying. And reading the old posts I realized that I had it easy, coming here when all the difficult work was already done, the "forge theories" proved beyond any rational doubt by new games that surpassed everything that had come before, the big model already drawn and explained with years of experience explaining it. It had to be much more difficult believing in what the Forge stood for in 2001. But reading these first threads, I would have liked to be there at the beginning. instead of wasting more years with broken games and bad habits..

When I started to flame after that against these same old useless habits and broken games in Italian forums and conventions I was only venting my rage, but I found that really a lot of people shared that rage and were searching for something better.  A lot of these people became my friends, and the Italian gentechegioca community has grown both in number and in sociality in a way I would not have considered possible only a few years ago. And nothing of that would exist without the Forge.

And finally, without the Forge I would not have known and I would not have met Ron, Vincent, Meguey, Paul, and Danielle, and that would have been really a pity.

I am not happy to see this place closing. I will miss it, even if was almost empty at the end. And about that... I consider it the biggest failure, not of the Forge, but of the community that was attracted by this forum in 2001-2005. The way a lot of people did read "talk about theory only in Actual Play terms" as "you can't talk about theory anymore" (or maybe it was honestly a "if I have to play to talk about theory, I am leaving this place").  I think that a certain point, in this community, commerce and/or status games took the place of actual play and reflection for a lot of people, with bad consequences both for the forum and the community.

The Forge would have been closed anyway, this is clear from at least 2005.  The pity is not that it's closing (even if I will miss it a lot...), it's that it was not more used it the last years that it was open. Now it's too late.

Too late to post new threads, anyway. But luckily the forum will stay here, and there are still a lot of interesting threads I have still not read...

[Christoph Boeckle]

Thank you Ron, Clinton and Vincent, thanks a million. Without the Forge I'd most probably have stopped playing RPGs. Now I'm moderating a small French-speaking forum very much inspired by the Forge, with some games having been started thanks to that forum now seeing the light of day as finished and utterly playable and satisfying games, some independently published, another in the end being taken up by a small press publisher. I hope I'll finish my first game soon too, as an independent endeavour. Thanks for bringing the ideas of independence and of thoughtful game design to such a wide audience, role-playing is a better hobby now than it used to be. I'm looking forward to supporting the spirit of the Forge into the future, in whatever appropriate forms we'll find.

[JoyWriter]

I really like this site,
for the discussions I've had that I feel have fastforwarded my knowledge, where people's honesty and self analysis has allowed me a leg up on vast quantities of personal skill and insight,
for random designers coming in on the first thoughts forum with enthusiasm and strangely familiar ideas, like representatives of the collective unconscious,
for people having wonderful ideas for mechanics that spark you going in completely different directions,
for people with really strange preferences in games but who are willing to bridge the gap, by contrast illuminating more of what interests you,
for a dedication to real examples and minor cross-examination, both adding weight to people's theories and putting appropriate limits on their scope,
for asking people "what their game is about" and encouraging conscious editing and saying something new,
for people who ask for feedback on their games (which I love to give) and honestly consider your suggestions,
for people who are experienced enough at giving advice that they know when they are starting to redesign someone's game for them,
for a depreciation of ego games compared to "getting to the bottom of it" discussion,
for the fusion of theory-making with the production of games to exemplify those traits,
and for coming across designers who's work I have a real affinity for, but would never have recognised without seeing them discuss their design process or other people's games.

It hasn't been all of those things all the time, and I've spent a lot more time lurking and archive-searching than I have being a part of discussions, but what I've been involved with has been pretty lovely.

Josh

[Thomas Lawrence]

I wrote this four years ago. Adieu, Forge!

I am the very model of a modern roleplay theorist,
I've read of play that ranges from gamist to simulationist,
Between Karma and Fortune I can simply differentiate,
On theoretic forums I am practically a potentate,
When larrakins abuse me I just keep in mind that sane adage,
"They're probably still suffering 'cause White Wolf gave 'em brain damage"
Regarding Forgeite dogma there's no topping my adherency,
My subtle observations will always spot incoherency!

His subtle observations will always spot incoherency,
His subtle observations will always spot incoherency,
His subtle observations will always spot incohere-herency!

Whenever there's confusion about those three letters GNS,
I have the explanation that will put the argument to rest,
It doesn't matter whether you're gamist or simulationist
I am the very model of a modern roleplay theorist

It doesn't matter whether you're gamist or simulationist
He is the very model of a modern roleplay theorist

My arguments supporting Story Now are quite invincible,
I'm very well acquainted with old Vincent Baker's principle
I've clearly sorted in my mind the whole immersion farrago,
I'm convinced that I can navigate my way into El Dorado.
The Big Model is intricate, don't think I'm not aware of it,
And many are the roleplayers who find themselves quite scared of it,
But you will find me friendly and my board responses punctual,
Or else I'll put your play inside a box I've marked "dysfunctional"

Or else he'll put your play inside a box he's marked "dysfunctional"
Or else he'll put your play inside a box he's marked "dysfunctional"
Or else he'll put your play inside a box he's marked "dysfunction-functional"!

My players will be awed with my precision when I'm scene framing,
Ron Edwards will come visiting the places where I'm seen gaming,
Indeed for play that ranges from gamist to simulationist,
I am the very model of a modern roleplay theorist.

In fact for play that ranges from gamist to simulationist,
He is the very model of a modern roleplay theorist

In fact, when I've rolled dice upon a table while in company,
And when I've played a role of some sort, even just on IRC
When I've bested my enemies with magic spells and strategy
And when I've eaten Cheetos and then wielded a sword +3
And when I play they'll gape in awe at my moving oratory,
If only all my play thus far weren't wholly masturbatory.
In short, when I've experience that's more than just imaginary,
You'll say a better roleplayer has never sat and played with thee

You'll say a better roleplayer has never sat and played with thee
You'll say a better roleplayer has never sat and played with thee
You'll say a better roleplayer has never sat and played and played with thee!

For my attempts to game thus far, though my desires are exact,
Have never gotten further than our fights over social contract,
But still in matters roleplaying, gamist to simulationist
I am the very model of a modern roleplay theorist.

But still in matters roleplaying, gamist to simulationist
He is the very model of a modern roleplay theorist.

[David Artman]

*salutes*

[Rich Forest]

Thank you Ron, Clinton, and Vincent. The Forge's impact speaks for itself. And on a personal level, I've met some great, passionate people through the Forge and had some great gaming thanks to it as well. So thank you.

[Mael]

I just wanted to say that The Forge not only changed my vision of the hobby forever, but also gave me hope when I was struggling in the dark.
So thank you all, for everything and more (and Ron, sorry about that post, I know you dislike "Bye" topics but I couldn't resist).

Au plaisir de vous revoir en d'autres lieu.

Mael.

[John Mc]

Good work was done here.  


As a beneficiary of your labors, my gratitude goes out to everyone who contributed.

[Ben Lehman]

Be well.

yrs--
--Ben

[Jim D.]

I lurked, I read, I learned a lot.  I admit I've been essentially inactive for a couple years here.  But I did a lot of reading, and it's one of those situations where the more you learn, the more you realize you don't know.  

I'm still chugging along on a few projects of mine, but I think one of the biggest things I learned here is that there's No Silver Bullet.  That's an old programming aphorism that suggests that no one solution can hope to solve 100% of the problems you face.  No language, no development style, no anything.  I tried to make a universal system, and failed, and then learned that it's *impossible*.  Targeted experiences -- games meant to evoke certain styles of play, certain stories -- are amazing, and it's been awe-inspiring watching the Forge and its diaspora cultivate a genre that had only begun to understand what it could do.

Ron, Vincent, Clinton, Simon, and all the rest -- well, I don't have the audacity to call you friends, because I wasn't really involved here.  What I can call you all is teachers.  I don't use that phrase lightly.  Not evangelists, not apologists, not lecturers, but teachers.  I mention one of the biggest things I've learned, but here's what comes in at number one:  I didn't learn how to make games.  I didn't learn what's successful, what's the "right way".  I didn't learn the best way to roleplay.  (I learned that those are the wrong questions, too.)  But what I did learn is how to *think* about RPGs, and how to make my own conclusions and shape my experience the best way possible.  That's what the best teachers show you.  Don't be a slave -- to tradition, to conventional thinking, to "the right way" -- think for yourself.

It's been an honor learning from all of you.  

[Andy Kitkowski]

It's really hard to accept that the Forge is closing, honestly.

C'est la vie.

-Andy

[Call Me Curly]

Thank you all for creating this culture.