Werewolves

[CCW]

One of my players wants to design a character who is a werewolf.  As he says:

Someone who has had the disease for a while and has learned to control it somewhat.

So far, this is what I've come up with rules-wise.  it is based partially on the Puma Person keyword, and partially on a suggestion by Mike Holmes in this thread: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=12176

You get a single ability called Control Wolf Form and a flaw called Lycanthropy. When you want to become a wolf you roll Control Wolf Form against Lycanthropy.  The level of your success determines how fast you change (as in the Puma People, HQ page 50).  The same goes for returning to human form.  Sometimes, and we will determine together when this happens (for example: a full moon, you're wounded badly) you will have to make this roll to resist going into wolf form.  The idea is that your Lycanthropy trait determines how hard it is to control your disease, while your Control Wolf Form is your wolf-y power.

When you return, however, you must also make another roll.  This time it's your Lycanthropy against almost any other ability you have (that isn't part of the wolf description).  If the other ability wins, then your Control Wolf Form is wounded, reduced appropriately.  This reflects your human side resisting the very idea of being a wolf.

If your Lycanthropy wins, the other ability is wounded, it is somehow weakened by taking on some wolf-y, some inhuman traits.  You can't run as fast because your feet change to a shape half-way between a human's and a wolf's, or your relationship is weakened because some part of you would really like to eat the other person.

There will normally be some way to 'heal' whatever ability is involved, though it might not always be easy.

If the 'human trait' ever gets a complete victory, then you will no longer be a lycanthrope (though you will get some almost compensating ability as soon as it's plausible), if your Lycanthropy ever gets a complete victory, you will lose your humanity and stay a wolf (and very likely an NPC) forever.

What do think?  Does this make sense?

Charles

[Snowden]

I've got a few questions:

When the player wants to transform success on their initial roll seems to allow them to transform faster, while failure means they don't transform at all; what happens when the moon (or whatever factors you've agreed on) try to force a transformation?  Does a success mean the player resists completely, and increasingly severe degrees of failure mean an increasingly rapid transformation?  Or does a success only delay the inevitable full-moon transformation?

More significantly, it looks like "Control Wolf Form" only serves to regulate the transformation.  What if instead of simply determining how fast the PC transforms, this ability influenced the extent to which they were able to remain in control of their wolf form once they had transformed?  A strong success could allow them to continue normal play as a wolf until morning, while a serious failure might cut straight to "you regain consciousness lying naked in a pool of blood and doll parts."  Perhaps this roll could also determine what kinds of human abilities could be used by the wolf (perhaps passions, relationships, skills, and magic in that order?).

Does the dynamic you're shooting for require the wolf form to be more "powerful" than the human form?  If so, how would this work mechanically?  If not, would you be comfortable with a powerful hero for whom lycanthropy was a problem not because it caused uncontrollable chaos and destruction, but because it made them substantially weaker and slower than they were in human form?  I don't have the rules in front of me, but perhaps framing lycanthropy as the act of (sometimes involuntarily) heroforming a wolf-deity would help make this work mechanically.


Finally, I'm not sure about gambling "Lycanthropy" against other abilities, as you seem to suggest.  Instead, I would probably give them a bunch of wolfish traits ("Lone hunter," "Loves raw meat," "Savage fighter," "Thick facial hair," etc.) and use the highest one, perhaps augmented by the others, as their effective "Lycanthropy" rating.  Come to think of it, I might ditch "Control Wolf Form" altogether and make them use whatever ability is most appropriate...want to avoid scaring off your beloved by turning into a beast on your wedding night?  Roll "Chaste and courtly passion" against "Savage bloodlust."  Want to avoid leaving your guardpost when the sun goes down?  Roll "Duty to regiment" against "Howl at the full moon."  Overall, I would lean towards having the negatives come out in play, rather than base them on a dice roll.

Hope this helps!

[CCW]

Thanks for your ideas.  I suspect that the player in this case sees becoming a werewolf as mostly an extra power, with some dangers / drawbacks, rather than mostly a curse.  He wants to take it in place of a magic keyword.

When the player wants to transform success on their initial roll seems to allow them to transform faster, while failure means they don't transform at all; what happens when the moon (or whatever factors you've agreed on) try to force a transformation?  Does a success mean the player resists completely, and increasingly severe degrees of failure mean an increasingly rapid tansformation?  Or does a success only delay the inevitable full-moon transformation?

I'd want to discuss this with the player, but I think a success would prevent the full-moon transformation.  If that were the player's goal.

What if instead of simply determining how fast the PC transforms, this ability influenced the extent to which they were able to remain in control of their wolf form once they had transformed?  A strong success could allow them to continue normal play as a wolf until morning, while a serious failure might cut straight to "you regain consciousness lying naked in a pool of blood and doll parts."

I really like this.   Yes, make changing easy or automatic, but have the roll determine the consequences of the change.  It might depend a bit on the goal of the contest.

Perhaps this roll could also determine what kinds of human abilities could be used by the wolf (perhaps passions, relationships, skills, and magic in that order?).

Certainly, if he had control of the wolf form, he'd be able to use his personality traits to a greater or lesser extent.  I am worried about getting too complicated with all this; if it starts requiring a chart, I get worried.

perhaps framing lycanthropy as the act of (sometimes involuntarily) heroforming a wolf-deity would help make this work mechanically.

I'm not really familiar with these rules myself  I was thinking in terms of using some wolf stats, from Anaxial's Roster, but I'll take a look at the heroforming rules.

I would probably give them a bunch of wolfish traits ("Lone hunter," "Loves raw meat," "Savage fighter," "Thick facial hair," etc.) and use the highest one, perhaps augmented by the others, as their effective "Lycanthropy" rating.

I think I prefer to keep the Lycanthropy as a short hand for the strength of the curse.

Come to think of it, I might ditch "Control Wolf Form" altogether and make them use whatever ability is most appropriate

I think this would be ideal for someone suffering under Lycanthropy as just a curse.  However, as the player wants the werewolf to be more of a dangerous cool ability, I think "Control Wolf Form" is useful as a measure of his, for lack of a better term, magical ability.

Charles

[Mike Holmes]

Is this for Glorantha? I'm guessing not, or we'd have seen the term Telemori by now.

Mike

[CCW]

Is this for Glorantha?

Indeed it's not.  It is a homebrew, originally d20, converted to Heroquest about 3 months ago.  I really don't know much about Telemori.

Magic is something tied to the demonic.  Using magic (in theory, none of the characters has done much of this so far) risks taint or transformation towards something demonic yourself.  Magic, even "evil" magic, is based on Animism--the difference is in the nature of the spirits you deal with.

Thus, becoming a werewolf might be thought of in terms of releasing a practice spirit from a fetish (the fetish being your own body, and the released spirit transforming you, rather than having an independant form).   Control Wolf Form is your relationship with the spirit, while Lycanthropy is similar to the spirit's attitude.

The important difference is that there should be some risk of completely losing yourself to the wolf spirit, of losing your humanity altogether.  I'm trying to model the conflict between the wolf side and the human side.  

Thus Lyanthropy is another word for taint, or dark side, or unlife.  It's that force you have to reckon with if you want to use the werewolf magic and remain human.

Charles

[Snowden]

Charles: Glad I could help a little, and I can see why some of my ideas wouldn't be too helpful to a player with different priorities.  I also hear you on wanting to keep this as simple as possible!

Mike: I don't know much about Glorantha beyond what's in the HQ basic rulebook, but you've piqued my interest...who/what are the Telemori?

[CCW]

Charles: Glad I could help a little

Helped a lot actually.  I'm definitely going to change the default goal of the first roll from "change into wolf-form" to "keep some control of wolf-form and not wake up in the zoo."  Thanks.

Charles

[Mike Holmes]

The Telemori (sp?) are a clan or something in HQ that can change into wolves. I'm not all that familiar with the details myself. Just wondering if this was related.

That said, have you considered the rules for heroforming? That is, often this sort of thing is based of of some mythic prototype that first did it. As such, the character is just heroforming when this happens. This is a way to get a ton of abilities all at once from such a transformation.

Mike

[Brand_Robins]

That said, have you considered the rules for heroforming?

Yea, I'd probably go with heroforming. I would, however, change it so that the character doesn't have to have the traits already to gain them from the heroform. Also, you can use there heroform resistance as a control test, to see if the character can change when they want to as well as to resist change when they don't.

The hero being taken on could look something like this:

HeroForm: The Wolf

Teeth that Bite 10w2
Claws that Rend 10w2
Fast as the North Wind 5w3
Regenerate (Magical healing, self only) 20w3
Strength of the Wild Thing 15w3
Speed of the Hunter 10w2
Predators Senses 20w2

Vulnerable to Silver 20w

Monstrous 15w2
Feral 20w
Untamed 10w

[Mike Holmes]

I just realized that I had a werewolf character in my game. Can't remember for the life of me how we did it. Hmmm. Was that the post you mentioned above? Or was that one of the Dark Side ones?

Mike

[CCW]

Yea, I'd probably go with heroforming. I would, however, change it so that the character doesn't have to have the traits already to gain them from the heroform.

This sounds good.  So the result of the heroforming roll would determine at what percentage the wolf-form abilities would appear.  You'd roll against the heroforming resistance,1W, to see if you could change, and against the same number to resist change, right?

Monstrous 15w2
Feral 20w
Untamed 10w

And probably one of these abilities + augments would be the resistance to keeping your humanity, replacing the Lycanthropy trait.  These abilities would also have to be contended with if the character wanted to do something civilized and not especially Feral while in wolf form.

I like it.  

Thanks everyone, you've been a great help.

Charles

[CCW]

OK, How's this?  Apparently I've recovered from my distaste for charts.

Contest: Heroforming The Wolf

You have to ability to take on the heroform of the archetypal wolf.

Appropriate Abilities: Heroforming Secret (the Wolf)
Resistance: 1W
Complete Victory: Full Incarnation, you become the Wolf and gain the abilties of the wolf at 100%; if you already have any of the same (or very similar) abilities, you may add them to 100% of the same wolf abilities.
Major victory: Incarnation, you become a lesser wolf and gain the abilties of the wolf at 50%; if you already have any of the same (or very similar) abilities, you may add them to 100% of the same wolf abilities.
Minor victory: Identification, you become half man, half wolf and gain the abilties of the wolf at 10%; if you already have any of the same (or very similar) abilities, you may add them to 10% of the same wolf abilities.
Marginal victory: Inspiration, you gain +1 to attempts to use the abilities of the Wolf or very similar abilities.
tie, marginal, Minor, or Major Defeat:  No effect
Complete Defeat: You become the wolf, but have no memory or control over the experience.  Things often end badly for those around you.  You may "regain consciousness lying naked in a pool of blood and doll parts."

Contest: Returning to Human Form

The Wolf is too wild to want to return to human form.

Appropriate Abilities: Any (usually relationships or personality triaits augmented normally)
Resistance: 1W
Complete Victory: change back instantly
Major victory: take a few seconds to change back
Minor victory: take up to 5 minutes to change back
Marginal victory: take up to 15 minutes to change back
tie, marginal, Minor, or Major Defeat:  No effect, you remain in wolf form
Complete Defeat: You remain in wolf form, but lose all consciousness of and control over the experience.  Things often end badly for those around you.  You may "regain consciousness lying naked in a pool of blood and doll parts."

Contest: Remain in Human form

At the rise of the full moon, you must resist or you will change into the Wolf.

Appropriate Abilities: Any (usually relationships or personality triaits augmented normally)
Resistance: 1W
Any Victory: you resist the change
Tie: you resist the change but you get a few minor cosmetic wolf features, facial hair and the like, and you gain +1 to attempts to use the abilities of the Wolf or very similar abilities.
Marginal Defeat:  Identification, you become half man, half wolf and gain the abilties of the wolf at 10%; if you already have any of the same (or very similar) abilities, you may add them to 10% of the same wolf abilities.
Minor Defeat: Incarnation, you become a lesser wolf and gain the abilties of the wolf at 50%; if you already have any of the same (or very similar) abilities, you may add them to 100% of the same wolf abilities.
Major Defeat:  Full Incarnation, you become the Wolf and gain the abilties of the wolf at 100%; if you already have any of the same (or very similar) abilities, you may add them to 100% of the same wolf abilities.
Complete Defeat: You become the wolf, but have no memory or control over the experience.  Things often end badly for those around you.  You may "regain consciousness lying naked in a pool of blood and doll parts."  There's a lot of that going round, apparently.

Charles

[Brand_Robins]

Major victory: Incarnation, you become a lesser wolf and gain the abilties of the wolf at 50%; if you already have any of the same (or very similar) abilities, you may add them to 100% of the same wolf abilities.

Shouldn't that second one be 50% too?

Minor victory: take up to 5 minutes to change back
Marginal victory: take up to 15 minutes to change back

I'd put these into less real-world time limits, as they could either be murderous or meaningless in contests, based on how much time is passing between bits. Something like "one unrelated action/at least 5 bids (or 5 minutes)/ at least 10 bids (or 15 minutes)" -- so that it ties into the dramatic pacing of HQ.

Other than that, it looks really good.

[Donald]

The Telemori (sp?) are a clan or something in HQ that can change into wolves.

It's Telmori. They are a clan of shapechangers, they change to wolves other shapechangers turn into deer, foxes, etc. The Puma people in the HQ rules are another so there's little difference in the way they are treated. Google throws up a load of links which are mostly to background.

[CCW]

Shouldn't that second one be 50% too?

yup.  Too much cutting and pasting.

Minor victory: take up to 5 minutes to change back
Marginal victory: take up to 15 minutes to change back

I'd put these into less real-world time limits, as they could either be murderous or meaningless in contests, based on how much time is passing between bits. Something like "one unrelated action/at least 5 bids (or 5 minutes)/ at least 10 bids (or 15 minutes)" -- so that it ties into the dramatic pacing of HQ.

Something like this makes sense.  In actual play, I'd probably go with "from instantly to a few minutes, depending on the degree of victory" and then play it by ear, depending on what seemed interesting at the time.  

Potentially the roll to change back might be opposed by something other than the default 1W.  For example, if our hero wanted to change back so he wouldn't be cut down by the wolf-hunting cavalry chasing him, his roll might be opposed by their Riding or Scan for Danger.

Other than that, it looks really good.

Thank you kindly.  More due to you (and Snowden and Mike) than me...

Donald, thanks for the information on the Telmori.  I'll check them out, although a whole clan of these things wasn't quite what I was looking for.  For sure not something I'd like to run into while they were hunting.

Charles