POD printer round up

[Luke]

Hey, the NPA is printed via Lightning Source. They're a big company, and sometimes things get dropped in their crack (pun intended), but their turn around and quality are very good. Also, their website is slowish, but pretty easy to use, especially once you have your account set up. Took me 5 minutes to reorder 100 NPA. I tried to work with RPI and Express Media on the NPA prior to using Lightning Source. RPI, as noted above, has trouble returning calls. And, as a printing industry professional guy myself, I found Express Media to be a walking, talking nightmare. Your experiences may, of course, vary.

-L

[Paul Czege]

Email, choosing the first listed option from this text on their website:

Do you have a question?
Please email us or call us toll free @ 1.800.443.1875. Ask for any available sales person. They will be pleased to help you.

Paul

[xenopulse]

As a quick additional piece of info, in order to sign up with Lightning Source, you need ISBNs (this is one of those measures to make sure that you're a serious publisher, I figure). My wife considered publishing a nonfiction book on invasive species and we looked into LS. The advantage is that your product will be listed in all the places that big publisher books get listed (Ingrams, Amazon.com...). They also have a fulfillment service where you send them the addresses of your customers and they print&mail the product to them (or so I understand), for a fee of course.

You can only get to the pricing once you sign up, I gather.

[philreed]

Over the last few months I've had quite a bit of experience with RapidPOD. In that time I've printed:

2 different 32-page 6.25" x 10.25" perfect-bound books with B&W interiors and color covers (inside and outside).
2 different 72-page 8.5" x 11" perfect-bound books with B&W interiors, color cover, and B&W inside cover.
1 72-page hardcover.
1 168-page hardcover.
1 full-color 88-page 6.625" x 10.25" book.

(All numbers above do not represent the number of copies printed.)

What I've learned is:

RapidPod's customer service is probably their weakest area. I've found that calling in is more useful than any other method of communication.

If they're rushed -- or feel rushed -- the books won't be quite right. These days I just try and plan a print window to make sure they are aware of when I need the book well before they receive the files. This has greatly improved quality.

They're getting more work than they can handle. This will likely improve as they get faster with the equipment (and add new equipment) but for now it's best not to assume anything shorter than three weeks from shipping off the files to delivery of the books.

[jdagna]

I've used Lightning Source for a non-gaming publication and was very happy with their product.  Crucifiction Games' Horror Rules! game was done through Lightning Source for the latest version, and that came out nicely as well.

For the 6x9" 100 page example, Lightning source would charge $2.92 per book sold direct to the publisher.  You'd actually pay even less (I think about $.70 in this case) if distributors like Ingram or Amazon order directly from Lightning Source, but they don't seem to be compatible with game distributors as far as I can tell.

Addix, Lightning Source might be worth looking into.  They have a UK-based branch and that would certainly be better than a US printer for someone in Europe.

[Andrew Morris]

Justin, thanks for the information on Lightning Source. Now, how much would the per/book cost be, if the author was just using them for printing? That is, I want 25 copies of my own book, and that's all I want from them -- no distributing or fulfillment.

[jdagna]

Justin, thanks for the information on Lightning Source. Now, how much would the per/book cost be, if the author was just using them for printing? That is, I want 25 copies of my own book, and that's all I want from them -- no distributing or fulfillment.

The $2.92 price is the one the author pays.  If you order direct, there is a 25-book minimum, and you pay shipping, plus a $1.50 handling fee per order (regardless of order size). 

I said publisher because Lightning Source does require you to have your ISBNs - they really are just a printer, but with the ability to sell direct to distributors on your behalf.  If a distributors orders your books from them, Lightning Source collects the fee for the sale, then deducts just the printing cost of the book (which as I say, is lower than the publisher's price by about $.70 on the example book).  This also saves the shipping, making it an awesome deal for traditional books, but I don't know how much you could take advantage of it with RPG distribution.

[Andrew Morris]

Okay, to bring everything together again:

Lulu
-- Conspiracy of Shadows, Donjon, Fastlane, Empire of Satanis
-- No minimum purchase; offers an online storefront
-- Sample price: $6.53 (shipping not included)

RapidPOD
-- The Imp Game, TSoY Revised
-- Minimum order of 24; offers full-color hardcovers
-- Sample price: $3.00 (shipping not included)

RPGMall
-- Minimum order of 10; offers sale via RPGMall website
-- Sample price: $3.58 (4.25x5.5 size; shipping included)

CafePress
-- No minimum purchase; offers an online storefront
-- Sample price: $10.00 (shipping not included)

Express Media
-- Elfs, My Life with Master, Masters and Minions, NPA
-- Sample price: not available online

RPI
-- Bulldogs, The Mountain Witch, TSoY (2nd print), Capes
-- Reviews were mostly positive to glowing, with a few negative experiences
-- Sample price: not available online

Berryville Graphics
-- Kayfabe
-- Sample price: not available online

Lightning Source
-- Code of Unaris (?)
-- Minimum order of 25; requires ISBN numbers; offers fulfillment services for a fee
-- Sample price: $2.98 (price provided by Justin Dagna)

Booksurge
-- Kevin and Kell
-- Sample price: $8.44 (shipping not included)
-- horror story

(Price comparison is for 25 copies of a 6x9, 100-page, perfect bound book with full color cover and B&W interior.)

Anyone know of any books printed by RPGMall or CafePress?

[M Jason Parent]

RPGmall used to use Express Media for printing - with almost no initial markup for themselves.

I have printed nearly a dozen d20 products through Express Media (and print non-RPG books through them regularly)

I only have Express Media's pricing for 8.5 x 11 handy, but the following is for 10 copy orders, price per copy. Price drops immensely for 100 copy orders, for example (I use them for 300-copy runs typically for a non-RPG product, 64 pages, 4 colour pages, at $1.95 per copy)

For a 10-copy run you are looking at $3.70 per copy... again, however, my sizes are off and I'm using a year old price scheme.

I would recommend phoning Express Media for a better quote, they are pretty responsive.

I have also done a lot of printing through LuLu of late, but that has more to do with the zero investment instead of the price. LuLu is overpriced, but easy to use. I've published my 24 hour RPG through LuLu, and about a dozen d20 supplements.

[Erskin]

These guys aren't a POD printer, but they are probably gonna be my new source for printing and delivering playtester copies of stuff, and this seemed like a fair place to mention them.

I just had one of my RPG books I sent to PrintFu.org delivered.

PrintFu took my PDF, printed it (black and white only, but they do use a thicker, water resistant stock for the covers), bound it with comb binding, and mailed it to me for cheaper than I can ususally manage at Kinko's/CopyMax/whatever.

For a 226 page PDF, I upload the file in the morning, and it was ready for UPS pickup by the afternoon. It arrived 4 days later. The print quality is fine. The total cost, ~$10 for the printing and ~$8 for the delivery.

I honestly prefer coil binding to comb when given the choice, and I ususally waste money on a color front cover when I hit the print stores, but all in all, I'm quite pleased and will more likely than not use PrintFu again.

Thought you guys might like to know.

[Andrew Morris]

Well, thanks for the info, Erskin. But...wow...that sounds incredibly expensive.

[Jared A. Sorensen]

Last year I used Express Media to do InSpectres and...well, what's that line about not pissing on someone if they were on fire? The books were terrible. The printing on the spines was completely off on just about every copy (and not even in the same way) and there were balls of glue leaking from the tops and bottoms of every book. The covers were massacred -- some were cropped too high, others too low. Plus, they were late. Plus, they were dicks when I asked them what they were going to do about the screwed up copies -- their guy's answer: "Well, I don't really know...I left early that day." Dumbasses.

RapidPOD's quality is great but terrible customer service. Also, they never sent me some of my books (half a print run of InSpectres...I'm just glad I brought some from home that were going to be sent to the UK).

[Andrew Morris]

Hopefully, this is the final consolidation of information from this thread:

Lulu
-- Conspiracy of Shadows, Donjon, Fastlane, Empire of Satanis
-- No minimum purchase; offers an online storefront
-- Sample price: $6.53 (shipping not included)

RapidPOD
-- The Imp Game, TSoY Revised, Fate Cards from The Mountain Witch
-- Minimum order of 24; offers full-color hardcovers
-- Sample price: $3.00 (shipping not included)
-- Four mixed reviews, one negative. The consensus seems to be that the quality is great, but the customer service is lacking.

RPGMall
-- Minimum order of 10; offers sale via RPGMall website
-- Sample price: $3.58 (4.25x5.5 size; shipping included)

CafePress
-- No minimum purchase; offers an online storefront
-- Sample price: $10.00 (shipping not included)

Express Media
-- Elfs, My Life with Master, Masters and Minions, NPA
-- Sample price: not available online
-- One positive review, three negative.

RPI
-- Bulldogs, The Mountain Witch, TSoY (2nd print), Capes
-- Sample price: not available online
-- Two positive reviews, one negative.

Berryville Graphics
-- Kayfabe
-- Sample price: not available online

Lightning Source
-- Code of Unaris (?), No Press Anthology
-- Minimum order of 25; requires ISBN numbers; offers fulfillment services for a fee
-- Sample price: $2.98 (price provided by Justin Dagna)
-- One positive review, one mixed.

Booksurge
-- Kevin and Kell
-- Sample price: $8.44 (shipping not included)
-- horror story

(Price comparison is for 25 copies of a 6x9, 100-page, perfect bound book with full color cover and B&W interior.)

[Keith Senkowski]

Andrew,

Lightning Source does not require ISBN after all.  I just was in contact with their webmeister and he said just to enter XXX for the ISBN number if you don't plan on using their distribution network.

Keith

[timfire]

RapidPOD
-- The Imp Game, TSoY Revised, Fate Cards from The Mountain Witch
-- Minimum order of 24; offers full-color hardcovers
-- Sample price: $3.00 (shipping not included)
-- Four mixed reviews, one negative. The consensus seems to be that the quality is great, but the customer service is lacking.

You should ask Clinton, Matt Gwinn, and Nate Peterson about their recent GenCon experience with Rapid POD (I forget if there was others).

BTW Rapid POD did NOT print the cards for The Mountain Witch. I had to spend a number of hours at Kinko's making the cards myself after they dropped my order a week before the convention. (Yes, I admit I have a slight grudge against them.)