[minis] The Village Game ( rough draft)

[komradebob]

Thanks to Thomas ( Lord Smerf), I'm able to show you folks the game design I've been developing, based on the freeform miniatures games my daughter and I play. Here is the Actual Play discussion, and this is the pdf of the rough draft.

This design is evolving as you're reading this post (literally- I'm very likely hacking this up right now!), so the pdf represents The Village Game ( the name is a place holder) as it stood last night.

Here are a few key items I need help/comments on:

1) What do you think of the glass bead economy in the game? I'm not sure I like it as a mini-economy, but I do like it as a physical game bit. The idea was to give only limited options to any player, including the scene framing player, and to encourage players to work to get award cards. I've got some ideas about removing the bulk of the beads from the game, keeping them strictly for scene resolution.

2) Speaking of scene rez, I'm working on addding another type odf card to the game- resolution cards.
The player calling for scene resolution picks up the Eureka! card, describes what they think the main confict of the scene is, and proposes an outcome.

The other players (starting to the left of the Eureka! player ) may then pick one of the following three cards or pass:
Yes, but..., Yes, and... , or Instead....
Each of these cards offers a different outcome, but the players must somehow use the conflict identified by the Eureka! card player.

3) I'm looking for suggestions on how to have a final wrap up scene. The one in the current rules was added hastily. I want some sort of collective epilogue session.

4) I'd like any suggestions about clarifying award cards or suggesting new ones. I like the award cards and final award ceremony, even if it is a little hippy-dippy. I feel that players should take some time and show their appreciation to one another. Plus, I think it helps reinforce style of play within a group, sort of drift by feedback written in to the game.

I've got other comments and questions, but I'll leave off for now, so that I can open up the discussion.

thanks,
Robert

[Callan S.]

1) What do you think of the glass bead economy in the game? I'm not sure I like it as a mini-economy, but I do like it as a physical game bit. The idea was to give only limited options to any player, including the scene framing player, and to encourage players to work to get award cards. I've got some ideas about removing the bulk of the beads from the game, keeping them strictly for scene resolution.

Sorry, I'm terrible at reading PDF's, but I got struck by this wonderful image and had to ask how your doing this? Because I had this sudden image of the town women all coveting the rare glass beads the others have. They are so desired that they become the currency that drives change in an otherwise fixed society, like "I'd never let you talk to my derrick...oh, you have those wonderful beads with the red swirls...well". But never mind driving change, what I liked was the idea of so much intensity about the beads and the emotions of a tight knit community swirling around them, with the intensity growing ever stronger with each harsh deed that follows an exchange of these bits of glass.

Sorry, got excited, had to type!

[komradebob]

1) What do you think of the glass bead economy in the game? I'm not sure I like it as a mini-economy, but I do like it as a physical game bit. The idea was to give only limited options to any player, including the scene framing player, and to encourage players to work to get award cards. I've got some ideas about removing the bulk of the beads from the game, keeping them strictly for scene resolution.

Sorry, I'm terrible at reading PDF's, but I got struck by this wonderful image and had to ask how your doing this? Because I had this sudden image of the town women all coveting the rare glass beads the others have. They are so desired that they become the currency that drives change in an otherwise fixed society, like "I'd never let you talk to my derrick...oh, you have those wonderful beads with the red swirls...well". But never mind driving change, what I liked was the idea of so much intensity about the beads and the emotions of a tight knit community swirling around them, with the intensity growing ever stronger with each harsh deed that follows an exchange of these bits of glass.

Sorry, got excited, had to type!

Err, I hope you aren't disappointed when I tell you that you are so very far off how the beads were to be used. Sorry.

OTOH, your idea is great. Perhaps a game where all the main characters are women in a sort of prim and restrictive society (say, Victorian era ladies) and the beads are the creeping chaos that brings change? Something to think about for another game. PM me if you'd like to brainstorm this tangent.

Updates/changes:
Setting up: Setting up is being revamped to be simpler and more integrated in terms of characters and location. The big change is that when a player places a location, the other players then each may place characters at that location, round robin style with the placing player going last. The location placement then goes to the next player and there is another round of character placing, and so on around the table. Currently, everyone places locatons first, then everyone places characters in a second round.

I'm dumping the concept of story tokens (beads) as currency. Award cards will be used as currency, with a very short list of uses. The story tokens are used only to determine the starting player and used in scene resolution.

In scene framing, the framing player is simply given a set number of moves of figures (6). They may get two extra moves for each card they spend.

There are no longer important and unimportant characters. All characters at the location of a scene are considered assignable/playable.

The beads (story tokens) are only 8 in total: 2 each white, blue, red, and green. They are color coded to match the outcome cards used in scene resolution. Players no longer pick their color of beads. The color of the outcome card determines the color of their beads.

Scene resolution cards:
Eureka! (white)- Used by the player calling for scene resolution, who sets the initial stakes.
Yes, but...(blue)-The player agrees to the stakes set, but adds something to the outcome which lessens or acts against the original stakes.
Yes, and...(green)- The player agrees to the stakes and adds something that goes even further, or is in some way attached to the stakes. Think overkill.
Instead...(red)- The player agrees to the conflict, but offers a very different outcome.

By way of example:
The scene is set in the Goblin King'sCourt. A human minstrel has been trying to convince the King to give him a goblet to take back to impress his lady love by singing for the court.

Eureka! I know what happens!- The main conflict is that the minstrel needs to impress the Goblin King. The stakes are that the minstrel gets the goblet.

Yes, and...The minstrel gets the goblet (agrees to stakes) and the Goblin King likes the minstrel so much that he orders him to stay with the Court forever to entertain him!

Yes, but...The King isn't the only one impressed. The Queen falls in love with the minstrel because of his songs. She secretly poisons the cup meant for the rival lady before the King gives it to the minstrel.

Instead...The Goblin King is unsure of whether the minstrel is truly worthy of the prize. He orders a singing contest between the minstrel and the members of his court to decide who is truly the greatest song-smith in the kingdom.

That's all for now,
Robert

[Arpie]

I like the way that it's going so far, but I do have a concern.

If I interpret the rules correctly, what you're playing for is the right to start the next scene.
Is there any way to do it so everyone gets a turn starting things out on a regular basis?

Maybe you could do it in chapters or something? That might give you a handy limit to the length of play. Like, each player gets to start one chapter and then you play for the scene-starting beads?

The game ends once everyone's started a chapter, maybe?
I dunno. I like the game so far and I'm probably gonna try it with my wife and some friends over Christmas, but I know me and my friend's fiance will dominate the table without some kind of everyone-gets-a-start rule.

[komradebob]

I like the way that it's going so far, but I do have a concern.

If I interpret the rules correctly, what you're playing for is the right to start the next scene.
Is there any way to do it so everyone gets a turn starting things out on a regular basis?

Maybe you could do it in chapters or something? That might give you a handy limit to the length of play. Like, each player gets to start one chapter and then you play for the scene-starting beads?

The game ends once everyone's started a chapter, maybe?
I dunno. I like the game so far and I'm probably gonna try it with my wife and some friends over Christmas, but I know me and my friend's fiance will dominate the table without some kind of everyone-gets-a-start rule.

Ah no. I better fix that.

Scene starting is a simple around the table twice affair. So If Bob, Thren and Arpie are playing and Bob's color is chosen to start, the scenes in the game will go B, T,A,B,T,A and then have a group freeform finish.

Everybody gets two scenes.

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

Bob, this is exciting. I've been discussing the use of miniatures as Narrativist tools for a while now and haven't really seen a good way to do it. Good luck with this! I look forward to future posts.

[Arpie]

Ah no. I better fix that.

Scene starting is a simple around the table twice affair. So If Bob, Thren and Arpie are playing and Bob's color is chosen to start, the scenes in the game will go B, T,A,B,T,A and then have a group freeform finish.

Everybody gets two scenes.

Oh. I must have read through it too fast. Okay, I think I see that, now.

[komradebob]

The other critic and a rule update:
So, I was discussing this project with my daughter this weekend. She knows I've been trying to write a game based on our play for some time now, so I was explaining how it was coming along.
Threnody:" Oh you mean the game you wrote that we tried, but it didn't work, so we made up our own new rules?"
Me: "Yeah that one. I'm trying something new."
Threnody: "Oh good. Those other rules were terrible!" (referring to The Village Game's predecessor, A Cauldron of Magic Beans)
Me:" Er, yeah. I think you'll like this better, once we try it out..." (ouch!)

Ah well. Out of the mouths of babes...
The important change came from other feedback later in the conversation.

Me: ..." So anyway, once everybody has framed two scenes to play, the game ends and everybody just kind of describes, um, what they think happens after that..."
Threnody:" Why do you want it to work like that?"
Me: " Well, I mean we were awfully worn down after just a few really intense scenes, what with the stakes setting and conflict resolution and all. I just figured people would be tired and need a break after a few scenes..."
Threnody: " Um, Papa, if you remember right it was you that wanted to stop playing because you were worn out, not me. I wanted to play more..."
Me: [sigh]

After reflecting on the conversation, I've changed up the rules for ending the game. The scene framing still goes around the table twice. After this, play may continue for as long as players wish until one player calls for a final scene. They do this on their turn, and must turn in two award cards to do so. I haven't figure out if I want to have a group veto on this yet.

Also, I'll be adding a two player variant at some point. The quick gist is that in a two player game, location placing and scene setting goes around the table three times, instead of two.

[Justin]

Hi Bob, I just wanted to encourage you with what you're working on here.  My daughter and I have played a few times at what we call "storytelling", using some Star Wars minis we have. 

Our ad hoc rules were very simple, we basically just set up minis around the place willy nilly and then each chose a protagonist to play.  The story ended up being about the murder of Chewbacc'a (my daughter's player) friend, Alfred (who was some freaky looking bug alien).  Any major decision/intersting action/turning point in the story involved rolling dice. 

For instance, when she wanted to find out the description of the guy who surreptitiously retrieved Alfred's body from the mortician (incidentally, a battle droid for some reason), she rolled for it and I rolled against it.  We acted out the scene in favor of the person who won the roll.  In that instance she did, so the mortician gave her some accurate description information.

Whenever we play, I always end up acting out some portions of the story (GMing) to drive the play.  Maybe that is a mistake from a creativity standpoint--I'll have to think about it some more, but she likes the stories I come up with.

I skimmed through your draft rules, and hope to be able to offer some constructive thoughts when I can read them in more detail.  In my opinion, the simpler the rules and components of the game are, the better the game will be for playing with children.

Like you, I found that my daughter's enthusiasm and energy for playing "storytelling" were boundless.  She asks to play it daily and wears me down.  I'm looking forward to seeing where you go with this idea.

[Arpie]

Well, I certainly think this is coming along well.
It reminds me of what my friend Robert Haptenstall and I used to do with LEGOs when we were kids.
Speaking of which, what about getting silly? Gag potential? Me and my play buddies used to go hog wild with some pretty humorous (to kids) outbursts.

[komradebob]

Speaking of which, what about getting silly? Gag potential? Me and my play buddies used to go hog wild with some pretty humorous (to kids) outbursts.

I'd really like to get some sort of reward for humor into the game. I was working today on simplifying the award cards into just a couple of generalized categories. I'm hoping that I can figure a way to note the different contributions a player could make to the play experience. I think making the other players just plain fall out laughing is a valuable contribution, I'm just not sure at this stage how I want to work it in yet.

Justin:
One of the things that's becoming clearer to me as I write this is that I want the game to be accessible outside of the gamer market, so I'm hoping to add some discussion of using more than just the gaming miniatures that Threnody and I have been using. Depending on the direction I take with some support essays I'm looking at revising from the predecessor to this game, I may end up shifting focus entirely and going over to having non-game toys as the baseline for this game. As much as I love my little metal men, they're awfully damn expensive and fragile-two things that act as a barrier for a lot of folks.

Right now, two ideas I'm looking at are suggestions for playing with bigger toys ( stuffed animals or barbie dolls) and playing games with fewer individual characters/less amounts of terrain ( perhaps just a single dollhouse, for example).

As for the sort of accidental game-mastering that I've tended to do ( thanks Tony Irwin for pointing that out!), I'm looking at addressing the issue more or less head-on with an essay directed at older gamers who might be using this to introduce kids (or non-gaming adults) to this sort of activity. Basically, I'd just like to discuss how to be an enabler rather than a director during a game, if that makes sense.If anyone knows older threads on that subject, please go ahead and post 'em here so I can have a look for ideas.

As for getting worn out-Me too brother! I've changed up the end-game rules primarily to allow us oldsters to gracefully resign from the game while leaving the door open for really epic day long affairs. I still think there needs to be work done, but it is getting there.

Here's a question for everybody:
What sort of settings would you like to see to go along with this game? I'm open to all sorts of suggestions, especially ones that take into account the possibilities and limitations of playing a game with toys.

Thanks for all the feedback!

[MatrixGamer]

Bob

I just saw you post at the end of yesterday and only got to read it this morning.

Cool beans!

I think HG Wells would approve of your take on Floor Games.

The first part of the game - setting up the world - is like Wells described. Personally I like wooden blocks and plastic people - but there is a much greater range of 25-30mm figures available. The setting they make will likely suggest possible stories. I remember as a kid building an "underwater" city which our toy people inhabited. The story involved fixing cracks in the walls and rescuing people. I think you need to do more work on explaining this to people. It will need to be explained in simple elegant terms for 6 year olds to get it.

I like the story tokens. It parcels out authority for resolving scenes without using dice. It is like making Matrix Game arguments where the winning argument is the one whose stone was picked. Come to think of it I think "The Village Game" is a Matrix Game because it has players make arguments/proposals for action/results and then resolves which one happens. Congrats - you've added a new type of Matrix Game!

The award cards are what people will want to get. It doesn't matter if they mean much - just calling them awards will make kids want them. Have you looked at Dr. Gardner's game "Talking, Feeling, Doing"? It shows how therapists use the game to structure time while really talking about other things.

I wonder how well very young players will take to Forge terms like "setting stakes" etc. I'm certain they will understand what they mean when they do them - but plainer language might be helpful.

Anyway - Cool game - and when you want to take it to market, let me know. I'd love to put out a hardback version. I have a new copier coming in so I can do 8x10 books now.

Chris Engle
Hamster Press = Engle Matrix Games

[Arpie]

Maybe you could name the awards or make them highly visual?
Like pictures of ribbons and trophies? Or maybe things which relate to a village environment?
You could have funniest joke and scariest thing and bravest act , etc. ?
I dunno. What feelings would you like to encourage?

[Emily Care]

Hey there,

This is great! I like the concept of "bringing things to a boil" and hope you find good ways to flesh that out. 

Basically, I'd just like to discuss how to be an enabler rather than a director during a game, if that makes sense.If anyone knows older threads on that subject, please go ahead and post 'em here so I can have a look for ideas.

I do a lot of "pretend" with Meg & Vincent Bakers' kids & what works well is for each of us to introduce complications for the plot, either by making up our own nemeses or by making up obstacles that we'll all have to overcome or dangerous encounters etc. We either do it at the start of play, or during the game.  Having one per person who is playing is great since then everyone gets a chance to have their ideas spotlighted.  And even young kids can come up with stellar stuff.  I wrote about the rules we use over here.

Best of luck with this. I look forward to seeing it develop.

best,
Emily

[komradebob]

I'll give some comments later, but for now, here are some resources for folks. These buildings are scaled to figures between true 25mm and 30mm. Most of these sites have for-sale items, but I've linked the freebies for you to check out.

Dungeons and Dragons paper buildings:Tower, Woodsman's hut, covered bridge, Mausoleum,Graveyard, Tavern, Church, City Wall, Half timbered building, half Turret, Short wall, Timber hording, Gatehouse, and roads. The models are easy to assemble, but are large in scale (more for 28-30mm figures). The colors are extremely deep and rich.

Microtactix 2-story House Meant for true 25mm scale figures.

Games Workshop has a ruined Brettonian Gatehouse.

Rohir and Gondorian Houses and Towers Look in the link for paper models at the site.

A 2 Story Town House, smithy, stone arch, peasant huts, and other stuff

A creepy Bridge

A Dungeon Entrance

a fantasy hovel-very cool

The Wizkids Site fantasy buildings

Odissey Paper Models is a freebie Italian model site. The owner does really nice work in his Hilands range. Included is a stone church, two different fantasy houses ( one that is especially clever- Thurk's) and several Gothicy Graveyard items ( Mausoleum, Gate, graves, cemetery wall). The instructions are in Italian, but are really straight forward. The models themselves have a lot of parts, but are actually very easy to assemble.

a Haunted Mansion, Ravensblight Manor.  The Manor is cool because it has a finished interior and open back.     Additionally, there is another, simple cemetery and some other cool printable Hallowe'en goodies.