collateral damage in conflicts

[Valamir]

While stemming from a different starting point than your original question in the thread, you might find This Thread of some use.

Part of the issue is how to handle a Dog who originally wasn't in the Conflict but wants to jump in later when the Conflict turns into something they care about.

A suggested solution is to have the Bystander Dogs roll and participate in the Conflict anyway...They have to See both sides of the conflict to "stay in" as bystanders but never raise themselves until the point where they want to jump in (using at this point whatever dice they have left and not their full handful of new dice).

In other words if Jeb and Job are having a fist fight because Jeb was rude and Job took offence and John wants to stand and watch and make sure it doesn't get out of hand, all three roll.  

Jeb raises with  "I punch Job in the head"
Job Blocks with  "I slip out of his punch"
John "Blocks" with "I shake my head sadly at the sillyness of this fight"
Job Raises with "I kick Jeb in the groin"
Jeb Blocks with "I grab Jobs foot"
John Blocks thinking to himself "bad move, that's going to cost you"
Jeb Raises with "I toss Job over backwards"
Job has to take the Blow and so is on the ground.
John has to take the Blow and so takes d4 fallout which he'll later spend on a Trait like "Men who ain't polite wind up in the dirt"
Job's now low on dice so he escalates and draws his knife
Job Raises with "I slash Jeb's belly open"
Jeb's low on dice so he draws his knife and then blocks with "I catch the blade on mine"
John now draws his gun for more dice and decides to put an end to the fight with a Raise "I fire once in the air and shout 'Ok that's about enough!'"

If the fight never got out of hand, John would never raise and his sees and blocks are nothing but some mechanical book keeping to see what he has left when he does feel the need to get involved.  If John runs out of dice and doesn't want to escalate...he'll have to Give...which in this example might mean that he gets sick of it and walks away before the fight ends and isn't around to stop the bloody finish.  Other blocks and dodges would involve moving out of the way as the fight rolled towards him, and the like.  Fallout for John would be pretty minor at d4 but might involve trait's like "Job's a low down dirty fighter" or gaining a relationship with one of the combatants.

Its basically a way to let Dogs jump in mid-stream but not allow them to jump in with a full load of dice.

[Warren]

"I shoot you" and "I shoot you in the hand" would both result in d10s for Fallout. A bullet is still ending up in you, either way.

"I shoot the gun out of your hand" would result in d6s for Fallout. It's (what I would consider) a physical blow, but you don't end up being shot. Also, your narration for Taking the Blow should accept that you have been disarmed as well.

"I shoot your favorite pet puppy" would result in d4s for Fallout. It's a non-physical blow for you (the puppy gets the bullet,  you get to watch as it happens). Again, your narration for Taking the Blow should accept that you may well have an ex-puppy there too.

I think that a Raise like "I smack you on the back of the head with the butt of my pistol" would lead to d8 fallout. You've been hit with a weapon, but not a bullet.

This is all on the top of p36 of the original Dogs rulebook. Hope this helps!

Warren

[Tindalos]

Ok now with a copy of Dogs rules in my hand, and the insight from this thread.  It has become clear.  Thanks to everyone!

[lumpley]

Oh - about: what counts as taking the blow, like how do you decide whether 'Ann's character takes the bullet for him' is taking the blow or a block or dodge?

One very good approach - and fully consistent with the rules - is to let the person who made the raise decide. So if you raise and I take the blow, you get to say whether my narration preserves the spirit of your raise, and ask me to try again if it doesn't.

-Vincent