[TSOY] playing time and handling chargen

[Rob Alexander]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of setting up my first TSOY game, which I'll be running with my semi-regular Castles and Crusades group. I've done quite a lot of GMing in my time, but mostly with very traditional games. I did run DitV once (with two of the same players) but it seemed to fall kind of flat. I've played in an extended HeroQuest demo (run by the guy who used to post on the Forge as Lamorak33) and that was really, really good.

I've looked through the free version of the rules and setting text (the print version seems to be out of stock at , and also Rat Moon Rising (+ the revised stats) and Clinton's demo. I've now got a few questions:

1) Is it reasonable to run something based around RMR in one night (probably about 3 hours in practice)? How would I go about leading the players to reach a conclusion in that time? (Or is that even sensible to try?)

2) The TSOY rules, like those for Sorcerer, seem to suggest that characters should be created well prior to the game proper, and that the SG should then go off and build/adapt the scenario for them. One of my motives for running this session is that we're having trouble scheduling everybody for our regular game, so I'd really like to avoid having a character-creation session. What's the best way to get around this?

One option that comes to mind is using the demo (with its pregens) rather than RMR itself (with new characters).


yours,
rob

[Hans]

2) The TSOY rules, like those for Sorcerer, seem to suggest that characters should be created well prior to the game proper, and that the SG should then go off and build/adapt the scenario for them. One of my motives for running this session is that we're having trouble scheduling everybody for our regular game, so I'd really like to avoid having a character-creation session. What's the best way to get around this?

Hi Rob:

I don't have a definitive answer to the question above, but I can tell you my own experience.  For our group, I have found the exact opposite to what you suggest above is true: I actually do very little preparation prior to any game session.  I have found that because of the shifting nature of the keys (people buy them, sell them, use them or don't use them in ways that are unpredictable), there isn't much use in having a lot of prepared stuff.  The plus side is that the system is such that making up stuff on the fly is very simple; a few skills and maybe some pool pts and you are set. 

I would suggest that instead of trying to make up the characters well in advance and the come up with stuff, make up the characters at the first session of play collaboratively and then improvise a short role-playing session by reacting to what the characters the players have just made, all in the same night.  It doesn't have to be anything really complicated, just the most obvious first conflicting situation that strikes you as the players are all talking over what kinds of characters to play.  Play through that quick session, and this will give you a wealth of ideas for what kinds of prep will help you to be ready for the next session.

Hans

[Rob Alexander]

Ok, so you're just suggesting that I start without a scenario (or even a location) and just create everything on the fly? I've done stuff like that before (particularly for first sessions or for one-offs), but I've tended to have at least a setting (e.g. a description of a planet and an initial objective, or sketch-map of the city and a list of major NPCs). Starting from nothing (because I don't even know what kind of characters the players will want) is pretty daunting. I mean, we might start in a lord's court in Maldor or in a lashed-together raft off the coast of Qek.

I should mention that I'm pretty rusty at GMing generally, having run four sessions in the past six years.

That said, I've worked before in very trad systems (Shatterzone and 3E for the examples above) that don't provide any kind of structural support for adlib creation (keys, conflict resolution, FITM, "say yes or roll the dice", etc) so maybe this will work out OK.

Low/no prep is definitely something I want to work towards.


rob

[Hans]

Hi Rob:

My assumptions were as follows:

* You were using Near.
* The players and you would jointly negotiate the specific location on Near, at least at the start of the story, as part of character creation.

So yes, in a way, you are starting without a location.  But on the other hand, while the players are all talking over the type of characters they want to play, and that process is coallescing, you can be sitting there plotting out the first few scenes to throw at them and jotting down NPC notes.  It doesn't have to be a lot, in my experience, as long as the players have some good key fodder for what to do.  All you need is for one player to pick something like Key of Vengence or Key of Unrequited Love, and you probably have two hours of playing right there.

All that being said, I understand your discomfort.  This kind of improvisation is a skill that can be learned, but must be practiced to be maintained.  If you are still feeling uncomfortable, then I suggest you tell your friends that the first session will NOT have any role-playing; it will strictly be joint character/session creation, which, if finished early enough, will be followed by a rousing game of *insert favorite board/card game here*.  Then, if it turns out you DO feel like you have enough material to get some role-playing in, your friends will not only be impressed by your skills, but also excited at the prospect of trying out their characters sooner than expected.  Otherwise, the session should give you plenty of fodder to make up some handy prep stuff for the next session.

Hans

[oliof]

Hey Rob,

Rat Moon Rising wasn't really finished within three sessions in the group I played it (character creation was extra, and took about three hours for four players with two books), but the same GM finished it within four hours with another group (excluding chargen), IIRC. It all depends on the group and is a tough guess, since TSOY adventures are little more than explosive situations with a burning fuse.

Character creation 'by the book' can be a bit daunting when you do it the first time because of the way the text is organized (all the game misses is an index). You can find an alternative character creation process in this board that might help people get up to speed. Also, on the game's web page there is a pdf  with a list of all the secrets and keys which should help players finish their characters more quickly if you have a printout for each of them. If you're not above having a computer at the gaming table, you can search the free, text-only version quickly for stuff you need.

Depending on the amount of time you have in a session you can either create characters and run a short introductory adventure inspired by the PCs, or you can try a game with pregenerated characters (which takes out some of the fun). Frank's Snakes in the Shadows is an example for that. The problem with Snakes in the Shadows – if you want to call it that – is that it is meant as a convention demo, which means  that you have to take care if people are playing it with traditional assumptions, such as that actions have long-term consequences. Can be run with five players in four hours successfully. Is open enough to allow tweaking for a given group.

[Rob Alexander]

(the print version seems to be out of stock at ,

I mean to say "at IPR" and in any case I've now found the book on Lulu and ordered it. Clinton, is there a reason why this isn't linked from crngames.com?

[Eero Tuovinen]

1) Is it reasonable to run something based around RMR in one night (probably about 3 hours in practice)? How would I go about leading the players to reach a conclusion in that time? (Or is that even sensible to try?)

Hard scene framing is your friend here: instead of going with the flow like roleplaying is usually conducted, cut scenes. Whenever the substance of a given scene is exhausted, ask the players if they have anything else, and move on. Jump directly into the next important thing. Do not have transitional scenes, do it like a music video. If players start fooling around, ask them directly what they're hoping to achieve with the scene. If it's something you don't care about, give it to them. If it's major, make it a conflict. This way most of the dross in roleplaying is eliminated.

Do not go into BDtP at all if you only have three hours to play. Perhaps use it in the final, most important conflict of the night.

Finally, remember that not finishing is not a sin. The important thing is that you and your friends get a good sense of how the game runs, and have fun doing so. Whether the scenario finishes is secondary compared to that.

2) The TSOY rules, like those for Sorcerer, seem to suggest that characters should be created well prior to the game proper, and that the SG should then go off and build/adapt the scenario for them. One of my motives for running this session is that we're having trouble scheduling everybody for our regular game, so I'd really like to avoid having a character-creation session. What's the best way to get around this?

Do it by email. Either tell the players to go read the scenario so they can make characters that are pertinent, or ask them for character ideas (what they want their characters to be about thematically, specifically, not what their powers will be) by email. You can create the scenario based on the latter, and the actual character creation can be done during the session. The characters will be reasonably compatible with your scenario because the players told you what kind of characters they want.

You can also have a premade scenario in TSoY, although in that case I recommend that the players are clear on the presumptions of the scenario: if your scenario requires characters to care about the stability of a given duchy of Maldor, say, you can just tell the players than and ask them to create characters that have vested interest in the duchy.

[Rob Alexander]

Rat Moon Rising wasn't really finished within three sessions in the group I played it (character creation was extra, and took about three hours for four players with two books), but the same GM finished it within four hours with another group (excluding chargen),

Hmmm... I've probably only got about three hours total, and I'm trying to keep this to one session. Three hours for chargen (will probably be three players) is a problem.

Very rapid character creation is also something I'm keen to work towards. But obviously this isn't something you can do with every game system.

Snakes in the Shadows ... Can be run with five players in four hours successfully. Is open enough to allow tweaking for a given group.

Thanks, I'll have a look at this.


rob

[Andrew Cooper]

Rob,

If this is to test drive the system and see how it runs, then use pre-generated characters if all you have is 3 hours.  The hard part about making characters without knowing the system is you don't really know enough to make good choices and that slows the character creation down even further as players want to examine all their choices.  I'd just make pre-gens and let them pick which ones they'd like to play.

[Rob Alexander]

If this is to test drive the system and see how it runs, then use pre-generated characters if all you have is 3 hours.

Okay, given this and the other responses above I'll go with the pregen idea. I'm considering using Snakes in the Shadows directly or doing pregen PCs suitable for RMR.

Probably going to be three weeks until we play but I'll post an AP when we do.

Thanks everyone for your help.


rob