You guys are nutz

[Dav]

Okay, so I've noticed something completely odd about you Forgite booth babes...

You are odd.

I mean that.  No, really.  With the exception of Jurgen (who is all sorts of "go"), and Jared (who is also quite "go"), you all hole yourselves up in your rooms and roleplay at the cons.  It is odd.  

Even more odd, however, is that you rent booths and do weird things like work them to hawk product all day (if your company rented the booth, have at it, if you didn't, you're odd).  See... I spent MUCH less than a booth renting Radio Radio for a night.  We sold music, books, RPGs, and all sorts of stuff, and probably sold more in four hours than most did at the entire con.

Indie marketing, my ass.

Kids, maybe you should try something different next time around.  Like, less hoarding about a booth and bookshelf, and more with trying alternate, and (dare I say) more inventive ways of distributing your product.

All my Unfortunate Destinies stuff sold at Radio Radio... all of it.  Nothing left.  And hell, that is my damned side project.  You can get in on this.  I tried to invite people out... but strangely, a small room cluttered with people, after a small booth cluttered with people, seemed to be the sellpoint for most of you.  There wasn't even booze.

In a nutshell: get out more.  Try to push an envelope (any envelope, I don't care).  Seriously, maybe it is time that Ron and Jake and the "bigs" of the Forge community strike their own space, and let those projects and creative outputs that are struggling between "when I get the time" and "maybe I should do something with this" to put-up-or-shut-up.  Hell, I saved much money distributing for 4 hours... and it worked!  You'd be surprised what can work when you try it out.

Okay, enough ranting... every once in a while, I get afraid of you "outside the box" people that won't explore outside the box...  

I go now.

Dav

[iago]

All my Unfortunate Destinies stuff sold at Radio Radio... all of it.  Nothing left.  And hell, that is my damned side project.  You can get in on this.  I tried to invite people out... but strangely, a small room cluttered with people, after a small booth cluttered with people, seemed to be the sellpoint for most of you.  There wasn't even booze.

Hm.  I know what GenCon is, and what a booth there is, but I don't know what zis Radio Radio is.  Not that I go to GenCon, but were I to, how would I come to know of it?

[Adam]

Well, in the case of the Radio Radio show [which was primarily a Cruciform Injection concert co-promoted by Apophis Consortium and FanPro], announcements were posted on industry sites, the relevant booths were giving out flyers, and information was generally spread by word of mouth.

I'm glad to hear that it had a positive financial effect, Dav.

[SONIC BOOM! and ARR!]

[ethan_greer]

I think it's wonderful that you did well at Radio Radio, Dav... But I don't really see that as a reason to come trolling in to shit in everyone's cheerios.  Kinda insulting, kinda irritating, to look down on people for wanting to hang out.  Just my perspective.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

Actually, Ethan, Dav does have a good point. Which is to say, perhaps the booth venue is only one of many possible sales-points during the course of a con.

Historically, the Apophis Consortium blazes a trail for other companies, mine in particular. This just strikes me as another instance, and Dav's merely being his usual churlish self (it's much more charming in person than on-line) in pointing it out.

Identifying and using the alternate venues is a whole topic worth discussing. Does Apophis have a band? Why, yes, or more accurately, one of its co-owners is himself a musician/band.  Do they have a "draw" with it? Yes, it's all quite solid industrial mind-melting stuff, with people who know about it and like it, and furthermore associated with nifty subcultures (if I understand correctly, involving clamps and rings and whatnot).

Me, I don't have either of those "yes"-s. No band, no subculture. So instead of imitating Apophis, I have to think a bit in order to emulate them, which is to say, to apply the principle they've used so effectively in a way that works for me.

As a side point, Dav, were the Unfortunate Destinies products you sold in CD form? If so, that's another important detail, as people who attend a concert or gig might be predisposed, I think, to buying CDs.

Best,
Ron

P.S. All of the above was split from the Forge 2004 thread.

[ethan_greer]

Ron, there's no question in my mind that Dav had a good point.  It just belonged in another thread, as you demonstrably agreed.  Hence my lash-back.

Dav, when you say,

I go now.

Does that mean you're not going to participate in further conversation about guerilla marketing techniques and what-not?  I hope not.  I'm listening, as I'm sure others are.

[Jeffrey Miller]

Dav, when you say,

I go now.

Does that mean you're not going to participate in further conversation about guerilla marketing techniques and what-not?  I hope not.  I'm listening, as I'm sure others are.

I think that's jsut Dav-eese for "goodbye" ^_^

I've been turning this one over in my head since Dav threw down this gauntlet yesterday, and I have a few single-celled ideas.  While undeveloped, I'll throw them out for conversation:

- Forge Party (a la Valar? *shudder*)
- Indie Game Karoke!
- free Forge Rice Krispie Treat with every purchase
- free game with every purchase of a Forge Rice Krispie Treat (priced at $10..)
- Kayfabe Steel-Cage Death Match LARP
- Beat the pros
- 48-hour Indie Design Challenge - have a session on Thursday to elicit suggestions from con attendees, and then have a game to present to them on Saturday.. or for a $5 fee, have printed copies of it/them at the booth?
- Stickers with matching numbers! *ducks the rotten fruit*
- "Game With The Designer" - highlight the access to the designer-ness of the Forge?


-j-

[Ron Edwards]

I'm thinking something more primal - Dav's example is based on doing something besides gaming for at least one night out of the con, and selling games while doing it.

The "something" must involve mind-altering substances (e.g. alcohol), music, and substantial opportunities for single people to meet and have sex with one another. It should also be cool.

[Cue: Forge-type people all stare at one another in a kind of dumbfounded way ... "People do that?" says one, after a while.]

Best,
Ron

[Matt Wilson]

I've seen a lot of that sort of thing happen at the non-gaming trade shows I've attended.

It would be easy, I think, to do something similar to what was done with the Diana Jones awards. Rent out a space. Skip the band, and just have alcohol and poor lighting. Put up a couple banners and posters and that sort of thing. Advertise that there will be free drink tickets for anyone who shows up to playtest. I'd playtest just about anything for free alcohol.

Ron, maybe you could hand out Sorcerer-branded condoms. They could say "how far are you willing to go" on the packaging.

[Ron Edwards]

(blinks)

Matt, you aren't going to believe this, but that is actually a pretty good idea.

More generally, yeah, I think your rent-a-space idea is valid. Playtesting? Maybe. As part of what's going on, perhaps. I'm thinking that some kind of spectacle must be involved ...

Perhaps fairly heavy-contact martial arts sparring, with people who know what they're doing.

Or wrestlers! Geez, Kayfabe would sell like gangbusters, if the wrestlers were good and not just goobs.

Best,
Ron

[Mike Holmes]

Matt was talking with the WWE people at GenCon. Maybe a cross-promotional something?

How come I'm seeing something like a gladiatorial arena?

Heck, have a secondary ring where the tipsy folks can get in and participate. Like the sumo fights they have at bars, but using the foam weapons instead or somesuch. That's probably the thing that's really needed to get people to participate in such activities.

I dunno, caught up in the brainstorming.

Mike

[Matt Wilson]

Hey, I'm not a marketing guy for nothin'.

Anyone know how much that space at Jillian's cost to reserve? I'm imagining some kooky events like Ron describes, plus a "round the world" setup of speed-demos along the periphery. Everyone plans a 15-minute sample of their game, for more of a party atmosphere than a sales one. If they like what they see, they visit the booth the next day for a more formal playtest.

You print out a bunch of postcard-sized flyers and have people walk around the show floor.

Even better, game designers can contribute games for a "chance to win" at the event. We give out tickets to everyone who shows up and hold a drawing for the giveaway prizes.

[Jeffrey Miller]

I'm thinking something more primal - Dav's example is based on doing something besides gaming for at least one night out of the con, and selling games while doing it.

*cough*  see #1, above.  What if we rented out a space like, say, Jillian's, and had drinks, conversation, some spoof award, playtesting/chatter, etc?

EDIT: Curse that Matt Wilson for stealing my idea and then taking credit for it. He'll walk the plank, for sure!

-j-

[Mike Holmes]

What if we rented out a space like, say, Jillian's, and had drinks, conversation, some spoof award,

Why a spoof? Why not the Andy/Indie Awards? Any chance Andy will be available next year? Even if not, if he'd allow it, we could hand out awards there in a ceremony.

Mike

[Jeffrey Miller]

What if we rented out a space like, say, Jillian's, and had drinks, conversation, some spoof award,

Why a spoof? Why not the Andy/Indie Awards? Any chance Andy will be available next year? Even if not, if he'd allow it, we could hand out awards there in a ceremony.

Sure, why not!

-j-