The Forge Archives

Hey guys,

New to this area although I was an oldschooler on Gaming Outpost and RPG.net.

I'm looking at printing my own game, and folks are telling me not to do the hardcopy (big investment possibly disastrous results) and to go with web pressing it to start.

I still want my books to have a big budget feel without being seen as an inferior product, and I was wondering how successful anyone here has been with pdf's?

I'm beginning to get seriously discouraged, although I know there is a market place for the game I'm writing, and it is D20 (yes I hear the groans from the public). Any advice would be welcome.

Cheers,
Rob.

Hi Rob,

It all depends on what sort of market impact you have personally decided represents "success."

Just to take one guy's (my) example, it seems perfectly reasonable to consider success to mean, "returns profitably on production costs." Whereas many other people think in terms of market share (i.e. beating out other companies' performance) or in terms of penetration (i.e. so many copies moved, or so many stores carrying it).

Web-based publishing, with an electronic product, is a highly favored tactic among Forge members, but I must say that's because many of us are focused on any and all actual play, and any and all money returned - not on those more comparative or large-scale indicators of success.

In other words, if you have a PDF, market it correctly to the right venues, provide a hell of a nice site (with free come-ons), and pop up a PayPal, you'll probably make a few sales. If you have a great game, you'll get more sales. They still won't amount to much money.

The payoff is this: options. You can stop at this point, and consider yourself highly successful, and even enjoy the benefits of promoting and supporting the game on-line. Or you could go on to book-publish, which would require significant funding and - in my opinion - some necessary revision so the book is better than and different from the original in certain ways. If the game turns out to be a dud on-line, it's an excellent signal to avoid the expense of going to print.

Again, though all of this depends not on me or anyone telling you "how to do it," but rather on your own standards and goals. Some of the comments in the What to Expect thread may be helpful, as well as sundry others in the Publishing forum all the way back to the first page.

Best,
Ron

Thank you very much for your reply Ron. The what to expect thread was very helpful.

I have considered the options and I am seriously leaning towards the web-press side of things. I'll need to set up a website, get a pay-pal thing going, and finish my manuscripts, but I think it's the way to go. The risk is minimized, and I can also maximize the impact of my site by advertising on EN World (D20 reviews) and other gaming websites.

After looking at the risks that a hardcopy printing venture entail, I would rather minimize the risks. Web Publishing seems to do that for me.

I feel a lot less discouraged.

Now all I need to do is figure out how to hire artists. Can someone offer advice on that?

Hey Rob,

My next questions for you are contained in this thread:
Publishing on the internet

See also:
Free PDFs vs. final product
PDF Publishing
Best format for web-published games
PDF Publishing

As for artists, I'm inclined to wait just a bit to see where you stand regarding the issues in the above threads. But anyone else, jump in, by all means.

Best,
Ron

Hi Ron,

Just to give you a bit of background:

I have one manuscript written and about to enter the playtesting phase. This is a modern horror adventure using the D20 modern rules set. It is roughly 64 (once finished probably around 48) pages in length and I will be charging between 6 and 8$ U.S. for it.

I have another manuscript I am currently writing that is a Tactical Espionage Adventure in the tradition of Metal Gear Solid and Ghost in the Shell. This will also be a D20 modern rules adventure/setting. roughly 96 pages. Between 12 and 14$ U.S.

Both products are professionally written. Once tested they will be edited and revised, I'll be using a professional copy editor to do so. The products will both be layed out by a professional graphic artist. I want the art to be as high quality as I can possibly afford. Perhaps matching the look and feel of an industry major book.

To answer your questions:

I will provide a preview for both products as a pdf document for free download. Neither preview will give away the bulk of the product, but will be written to be useable for free.

Both products are well developed books. However without the immediate need to go to print, I will not be using a massive cover image.

The documents will be optimized for desktop printing. Greyscale artwork, clean design, sufficient white space to keep text legible.

Both books will be professionally formatted.

I may move to print later if the books are successful enough and the demand is there.

I hope that gives you a better idea of what my plans ential.

As for sales, it will be over the web, via paypal, or by money order.

Ummm, I think that's all of my current thoughts. I have an actual business plan, I'll need to revise it a bit for on-line business as opposed to printing. For instance buying a domain name, cost for a website, getting CGI capable web space, etc. But I think I might actually be able to do this.

Thanks,
Rob.

Robotron,

As far as D20 goes, everybody says that it is a terrible time to go into the market right now but don't let that stop you.  There will ALWAYS be many obstacles to any project that you try to do.  I've found that especially true in this business.  
A phrase that I have found extremely helpful in a book I've been reading goes something like this:  
"Face the most brutal facts about your situation and at the same time have the faith that you will ultimately succeed at what you are trying to accomplish."
It may take some time and a whole lot of effort but that statement is one of the recepies for success.

Best of luck

ask around.  talk to your friends.  chances are, one of your friends is an artist, or knows one.  everyone has a friend of a friend that majored in art or graphic design, so just spread the word.

good thing about using friends: they understand your budgetary concerns.  this guy i game with, his girlfriend teaches photography at a university.  turns out she's been looking for a creative outlet, can't wait to come up with some art for my project.  i mention money, she scoffs at the notion.  i can't take your money, she says.

would never have occurred to me.  i was worried that i'd have to illustrate this thing myself, and i draw like michael jackson fights.

so anyhow, ask around.  your friends will help you.  it's what they're there for.  if it doesn't pan out, consider college.  any universities in your area?  do they feature art programs?  consider posting an ad in the art department.  get permission first, of course.

don't sweat this too much.  focus on your work, the rest will fall into place in time.

I actually have a budget.

I can afford to pay folks a bit of money. Having my friends help is only asking for trouble, since I know that wills may clash between what I want, and what they think.

With that said, I'll probably be doing the layout for the first product myself. The second product will need more polish, and hopefully I'll be able to hire a professional (I have one or two in mind). A couple of designers have approached me already asking to work on the book.

As for going into the D20 market, I know there is a glut. What I'm doing is very different from what the standard market is doing. It's not original, no, but it's not being done by a lot of folks right now. As well, since this is for D20 modern, it should grab somewhat at the alternate crowd, folks interested in spy rpg's, horror, and other genre's I plan to touch on.

I've thought this out well, and analyzed a position in the market. I'm basically only trying to make a return on my investment in writing the products anyways, I'm not interested in becoming the next White Wolf.

Cheers,
Rob.

Great art, especially in the standard layout of something every couple of pages, is not always a good thing for a PDF.   Great art/layout on the web page itself is essential.  I think web pages sell PDFs the way covers sell books (meaning that the same type of consumers are turned off by bad webpage/bad cover design no matter how good the system/setting/premise).  This is just my personal opinion, of course.  

If you have spectacular art available, use it primarilly on the webpage and leave the PDF more text-based, with simpler graphics that consume less ink to print out.

That is a very good suggestion...

Thanks for your input.

Rob.

I think Laurel really hit it on the head.

I know many gamers who prefer PDFs to have a nice text layout that is readable and printable with very little artwork.  I know it certainly upsets me when I have to waste ink printing artwork when I'm really after the infomation.

If you're going to use artwork for the PDF, I would suggest a nice logo at the beginning and only a few small pieces of black and white line art within the product.  

Roy
roypenrod123@yahoo.com