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Woohoo! I think this might even be playable! :) And it no longer looks quite so much like the Pool.

Central to the game are the twin concepts of Mammon and Animus (Nod to Clinton for a great term). Mammon represents external resources that the character may call upon to aid him: Money, Contacts, Equipment, and so on. Animus represents internal power that the character may call upon to influence his situation: Skill, Knowledge, Physical Prowess, and so on.

Characters are defined by the Sources from which they derive ther Mammon and Animus. Sources should be listed on the character sheet under the appropriate headers. Sources for Mammon and Animus may be either vague or general as the player wishes. For example "Ancient Starred Broadsword" is just as valid as a source of Mammon as "Shady Street Contacts." The Mammon and Animus levels of the character are equal to the number of Sources listed for each on the character sheet. For example, a character with Mammon Sources of "great wealth," "popular socialite," and "loyal daughter" would have a Mammon level of 3.

Characters are created by writing the character's story (50 - 100 words) and choosing appropriate Sources. No more than 10 Sources should be distributed between Mammon and Animus. Leftover points (if any) are put in the character's Karma pool. Karma is a temporary, ethereal Source that can apply both to Mammon and Animus.

When a conflict needs to be resolved, the GM calls for either an Animus or a Mammon roll. The goal is to roll equal to or less than the score in question with 2d10.

If both dice succeed, the character may both narrate the scene and decide the outcome. If one die succeeds but not the other the player must choose between deciding the outcome and narrating the scene (the GM covers the one not chosen; the outcome is always decided before the narration is made). If both dice fail the GM decides the outcome and narrates the scene. Once the dice are rolled the player must assign one of them to narration and one of them to outcome. This is done even if both (or neither) dice are successful, because the differences between the target number and the actual rolls determines two things:

1. The difference between the narration die and the target number determines the number of Sources that must be incorporated into the narration. These Sources must be chosen appropriately - no narrating with Mammon Sources when the roll was made against Animus.

2. The difference between the outcome die and the target number determines the number of unique additions the player may make to the scene (or complications that the GM may inflict on the player).

A particular rating may be increased by one (before rolling) when one of the Sources is particularly relevant to a situation (essentially adding the important Source twice). This may only be done once per session, and furthermore, once used in such a way the Source is drained for the remainder of the session, no longer contributing to Mammon / Animus. A Source used in such a way must be made central to the narration, in addition to the number of Sources indicated by the result of the narration die.

Before a roll is made a single point of Karma may be spent to increase the target number by one. Whoever narrates must always include the strange or unusual incident that represents Karma's influence on the scene. Expenditure of Karma is also used to add new Sources to characters during play. If the player can convince the GM that the addition of a new Source is justified, the player may spend a Karma point to add the new Source immediately. Once spent Karma only returns when a player wins both the narration and outcome rolls *and* narrates the scene as a failure for his character. When this action is taken by the player, one Karma point is regenerated.

This is probably a rather unhelpful post, but I'd just like to say that this mechanism sounds rather interesting. However, I'd say that using Karma ro raise a score by 1 is quite a bit less 'powerful' than using a Karma point to gain a new source. Also, is it possible to gain more Karma, or are players forever limited to 10 Sources?

Quote from: Victor GijsbersThis is probably a rather unhelpful post, but I'd just like to say that this mechanism sounds rather interesting. However, I'd say that using Karma ro raise a score by 1 is quite a bit less 'powerful' than using a Karma point to gain a new source.

You are indeed correct. However, the important part of gaining a new Source is convincing the GM that you actually should get one. You can't just spend a Karma point and get one any time you feel like it... there actually has to be a reason for it.

QuoteAlso, is it possible to gain more Karma, or are players forever limited to 10 Sources?

Yes, you can regain Karma. It probably got lost in my not-so-organized text. :) Players earn one point of Karma when they win both rolls (giving them the right to narrate and the right to decide the outcome) and narrate a failure for their character.

QuoteYou are indeed correct. However, the important part of gaining a new Source is convincing the GM that you actually should get one. You can't just spend a Karma point and get one any time you feel like it... there actually has to be a reason for it.

So, at chargen you can choose whatever you want, but later on it's difficult? Why would anyone _not_ spend his Karma right at the beginning?

QuoteYes, you can regain Karma. It probably got lost in my not-so-organized text. :) Players earn one point of Karma when they win both rolls (giving them the right to narrate and the right to decide the outcome) and narrate a failure for their character.

Ah, I see - I thought you could only do this when you spent a Karma-point in the process. (So I thought it was rhater vague ;) ) Thanks for clearing it up.

Quote from: Victor Gijsbers

QuoteYou are indeed correct. However, the important part of gaining a new Source is convincing the GM that you actually should get one. You can't just spend a Karma point and get one any time you feel like it... there actually has to be a reason for it.

So, at chargen you can choose whatever you want, but later on it's difficult? Why would anyone _not_ spend his Karma right at the beginning?

They may very well do that. :)

However, remember that without Karma you can't add new Sources. This is a very DiP idea. Sure, you can spend all your Karma on Sources at the beginning of the game, but if you do that then you won't be able to add new Sources that the character might warrant during play. You can't just add whatever Sources you want, whenever you want. The Source has to be developed during the game, and Karma has to be spent on it.

If you do use up all your Karma at character creation, the only way to get more is by winning rolls and narrating failures.

What happens when a character wants to preform an action that will draw upon both external and internal resources?


Laurel

That crossed my mind too....
What happens in a fight with...

Dark Swordsman versus  the Human Punching Bag
Dark Swordsman
Has Mammon Source
NightBlade (his silent black Magic Sword...)
And Animus Source
Swordmaster (his sword use skill...)

which do you use?.... or would it end up a choice between what is being accomplished?...
Damage, disable...or magic effect...use Mammon
Disarm, defend, impress, simple hit... use Animus...

It would be a hard choice if the levels are different... if Darkswordsman had 3 Mammon, 5 Animus, 2 Karma... hmm

Bob McNamee
... I've been looking for a system to do a Super Genre game in....this looks interesting to me!

Good question, Laurel and Bob. My current idea is to apply the draining rule to all sources. When making an Animus roll you get all of your Animus Sources for free, but you can drain *any* appropriate Source (from Animus or Mammon) to boost it.

Quote from: PaganiniIf you do use up all your Karma at character creation, the only way to get more is by winning rolls and narrating failures.

Could you estimate how often something like that happens during a session? I mean, how often does someone roll a double success? A player might get a _lot_ of Karma if this is often, especially in a non-violent game where failure doens't mean physical harm.

Also, I wonder - does every source count as strong as any other source? And what do you do with objects that characters pick up drunig play but do not 'Mammonize'?

Lots of good stuff here Victor!!

Quote from: Victor Gijsbers

Quote from: PaganiniIf you do use up all your Karma at character creation, the only way to get more is by winning rolls and narrating failures.

Could you estimate how often something like that happens during a session? I mean, how often does someone roll a double success? A player might get a _lot_ of Karma if this is often, especially in a non-violent game where failure doens't mean physical harm.

It won't be that often. For one thing, players only have 10 points to distribute between Animus and Mammon. If we assume that the average target number is 5, double success will happen about once out of every four rolls. This might seem like a lot, but remember that players aren't neccessarily going to be willing to narrate a failure on every single double success... it depends on the situation.

Now, of course, players can jack the frequency up by having higher scores, spending Karma, and so on. However, I don't see this being a huge problem. For one thing, if you have to spend Karma to get Karma, then everything evens out. Secondly, the GM tells you which score to use.

For example, if you're getting a lot of Karma by winning Mammon rolls (maybe because you put all 10 points into Mammon when you created your character) the GM can throw you some curves by setting up situations that call for Animus rolls. If you have no Sources of Animus, the only way you'll have a chance at succeeding is by spending that acumulated Karma and draining Mammon Sources.

QuoteAlso, I wonder - does every source count as strong as any other source? And what do you do with objects that characters pick up drunig play but do not 'Mammonize'?

Yes, every Source does count as strong as any other Source.

Now, that last bit really caught my eye because it's not something I've thought about. I'm thinking I should borrow from Synthesis here and say that the GM is free to narrate the loss of un-Mammonized items after an appropriate time.

Of course, there's no reason that characters shouldn't be surrounded by all sorts of normal, sensible equipment. Un-Mammonized objects are neccesary color - they don't have an effect on the game mechanics (no adding to target numbers), but you assume they're there. If your character is a "Hot Net Runner" then he can have all sorts of colorful un-Mammonized equipment like cyberdecks... which of course can be stolen, broken, burned, and otherwise mutilated by the GM at whim. But if your character also has "Simtek Uberdeck with Chinese Military Black Ice" as a Mammon Source, the situation is completely different.

Let's see if I'm following character creation correctly.



1) Character Story (50-100 words)

Grenaldis is a handsome and witty thief who lived in the city of Damaskar.  He typically wears black with a red sash and is fond of
spending his free time charming the ladies.  Among his most notable escapades, Grenaldis stole the Eye of Hathor from the Temple of Niin,
and now wears it under a patch in his left eye socket.  Beyond his shocking red hair, worn in a long braid, Grenaldis' other distinctive feature is the loss of the little finger on his left hand.

Mammon (6)
A. Eye of Hathor (all secrets are revealed to the Eye)
B. Stash of good and gems from his previous adventures
C. Excellent Reputation in Local Thieves Guild
D. High-quality thieving tools
E. Information Network in Local brothels
F. Enchanted vorpal rapier

Animus (4)
A. Catlike-Reflexes
B. Godlike Speed
C. Extraordinary pain tolerance
D. Damnable Good Looks

Karma: 0

Quote"When a conflict needs to be resolved, the GM calls for either an Animus or a Mammon roll. The goal is to roll equal to or less than the score in question with 2d10."

Let's say Grenaldis is trapped in a dead alley by a local sheriff.


Player: "Grenaldis whips out his rapier and attempts to skewer the dumb fat sod through the belly."  (thereby calling upon his Mammon: vorpal rapier and/or Animus: Catlike-Reflexes or Godlike Speed)

GM: "Roll for it!"

Player: Takes 2d10 and rolls... 2, 3.  Double success. Player is able to narrate the scene -and- decide the outcome.

Player: "I leap to the side, laughing as the sheriff flails at me, as slow as an ox and dumb as a turkey.  My vorpal blade eviscerates the man so quick and clean I'm not even splattered with blood.  I pause long enough to take that fancy gold watch the mayor gave him and I'm on my way, back to the girls."


What has me confused is what you said about draining rule.  Character's Vorpal blade gives access to the higher Mammon pool, but he's using it in such a way that the Animus Pool is really obviously the primary trait in use.  Under these circumstances, what do you, as a GM do?

Quote from: LaurelLet's see if I'm following character creation correctly.

Bang on, Laurel!

QuoteLet's say Grenaldis is trapped in a dead alley by a local sheriff.

Player: "Grenaldis whips out his rapier and attempts to skewer the dumb fat sod through the belly."  (thereby calling upon his Mammon: vorpal rapier and/or Animus: Catlike-Reflexes or Godlike Speed)

GM: "Roll for it!"

This is close. Often, as in this example, an intended course of action will imply an obvious choice of Mammon / Animus. However, the idea is that the GM will tell the player which to use up front.  So it would be something like this:

GM: Make a Mammon Roll.
Player: Okay, but I want to use my Cat Quick Reflexes and Godlike Speed Animus Sources to add to the target roll. (Thus draining the Sources, so they can't be used any more in this session.) So the target number for the roll is 8. Note that the character's Animus score goes down to 2 for the remainder of the session because Godlike Speed and Cat Quick Reflexes no longer apply to it.

Then this happens:

Quote
Player: Takes 2d10 and rolls... 2, 3.  Double success. Player is able to narrate the scene -and- decide the outcome.

But you forgot that the player has to assign one roll to narration and one roll to outcome. Let's say he assigns the 3 to outcome - this lets him add (using Directoral Stance) up to 5 things to the scene (I'm assuming the gold watch, the girls, etc.)

If he assigns the 2 to the Narration roll, he has to incorporate 6 Sources into the narration, in addition to the two Sources he drained... the two drained sources have to be central to the narration. The others just have to be *incorporated* which means that they don't have to be important, just mentioned. (Frex, you might say that he feels the Eye of Hathor bouncing wildly in its socket as he leaps aside.)

QuotePlayer: "I leap to the side, laughing as the sheriff flails at me, as slow as an ox and dumb as a turkey.  My vorpal blade eviscerates the man so quick and clean I'm not even splattered with blood.  I pause long enough to take that fancy gold watch the mayor gave him and I'm on my way, back to the girls."[/i]

What has me confused is what you said about draining rule.  Character's Vorpal blade gives access to the higher Mammon pool, but he's using it in such a way that the Animus Pool is really obviously the primary trait in use.  Under these circumstances, what do you, as a GM do?

I think the problem you're having is that the character's intent does not neccesarily determine the choice of score, although it *may* influence it. Frex, in this example the GM could just as easily have called for the player to make an Animus roll, and the Player could have drained his sword Source in order to bring his sword into play.

The basic idea is this: The Sources that define the score you're using MUST be brought into play, as indicated by the Narration roll. If you want to use *other* sources (frex, from the other score) or make one of those sources particularly central to the scene you drain it.

Quote from: PaganiniLots of good stuff here Victor!!
It won't be that often. For one thing, players only have 10 points to distribute between Animus and Mammon. If we assume that the average target number is 5, double success will happen about once out of every four rolls. This might seem like a lot, but remember that players aren't neccessarily going to be willing to narrate a failure on every single double success... it depends on the situation.

Since Karma points seem pretty powerful and an excellent way of developing your character, I think you might be surprised how often your players will choose to narrate a failure. This might not necessarily be a problem, but it needs careful consideration.

QuoteYes, every Source does count as strong as any other Source.

Sounds a bit strange. Suppose my character is 'pretty strong', which I use as an Animus-source. Suppose another character is 'extremely strong', which he uses as an Animus-source... yet both cost just as much, and help just as much. In effect, there is no real difference between the two.

QuoteNow, that last bit really caught my eye because it's not something I've thought about. I'm thinking I should borrow from Synthesis here and say that the GM is free to narrate the loss of un-Mammonized items after an appropriate time.

Has anyone playtested Synthesis enough to tell you whether this works?

Also, another problem came to my mind. For instance, my Mammon-source "very loyal daughter". Suppose that, in one adventure or another, my daughter dies. What happens? Suppose that, through roleplaying, her loyalty crumples. What happens?

So, to provide a sort of foil to Laurel's post I thought I'd come up with my own example that demonstrates the system. Here we go:

Ana Nathema

Ana roams the Atomic Wastes with her biker clan, the Neo-mutants. She commands a fair amount of prestiege and attention from her fellows. Partly this is because most bikers are guys and Ana is endowed with impressive "assets," but mostly because the other bikers know about Ana's history, which includes the public ridiculing of an enemy clan cheif. Of course, the chief didn't appreciate this, at which point Ana beat up his four elite enforcers and put a world of hurt on the rival boss himself. Ana learned her martial arts skills from her mentor, the ancient sensei Giyami.

Mammon: 5
   Righteous Sand Hog
   Sexy Biker outfit - Leather and chains, baby!
   Mentor - Sensei Giyami
   Wicked Reputation
   Member of Neo-mutant Biker Clan

Animus: 2
  Hot Babe
  Atomic style Kung Fu

Karma: 3

So, Ana is searching for the City of Spare Parts when she comes across a couple of gangers beating up a ped with clubs and chains. Naturally the gangers lose interest in the ped as soon as they catch sight of Ana. They move in for the "kill."

Player: Ana wants to distract the gangers with her feminine charms, and then bust them apart when they aren't looking.

GM: Okay, make an Animus roll.

(Ana's Animus is only 2, so she doesn't have a very good chance here.)

Player: I'll spend a Karma point and drain my Atomic Kung Fu and Sexy Biker Outfit Sources.

(This brings the target up to 5. However, Ana's Karma is down to 2 now, and her Mammon is down to 3, since the Kung Fu and Outfit Sources don't work any more.)

Ana Rolls 2d10 getting a 5 and a 2, which means that she can both decide the outcome and narrate the scene. Ana assigns the 5 to narration (which means that she doesn't have to incorporate any Sources other than the two drained ones in her narration) and the 2 to result (which means she can add up to 3 single elements to the scene).

Player: Ana struts towards the gangers, swinging her hips. "Hey there, big boys," she says, ratling her chains and creaking her leather. The gangers turn towards her and whistle. "Heey there, pretty lady," leers one. Ana hits him in the stomach with an Atomic Punch. Before the second ganger can blink he joins his buddy on the sand. Ana helps up the battered ped. It's her friend Danube. "Thanks Ana," he gasps! "Why were those dorks trying to plant you the hard way?" Ana asks. "They were trying make me tell them where I hid the map to the City of Spare Parts I found." He pulls the map out of his shirt. "Gangers aren't too smart." "Great, Danube!" Ana exclaims. Grabbing the map and the Gangers' spare gas can she leaps astride her bike and roars off in a cloud of sand.

So Ana added three things: The ped is her friend Danube, Danube has a map to the City of Spare Parts (of course, the GM is free to have it be a fake :), and the Gangers had a gas can.

Thanks to working with concrete examples, its all slowly becoming clear.

Has the system been put to the rigorous of an actual playtest yet?