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I posted this in the indie forum as well, though I meant to post it here. Apologies to the admin if this is a faux pas, but I think this post is more appropriate for this forum.
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 We're developing a prgram whereby we will publish and distribute selected indie RPGs. The contract is still in draft but we hope to have it finished soon.

 Through the program, designers will send us ready-to-print files (to our specs; we're aiming for hi-res PDFs) and we will put the books into production using our POD printer. If we do design work on a project that would incur an extra fee for that work.

 The program will require an up front fee plus a percentage of net sales of each copy of the book(s). Right now we're looking at charging 60% of net receipts, though that number's not firm yet. Here's an overview of what the program will provide the designers:

 * file setup costs (charged by our printer)
 * ISBN and barcode
 * publishing/POD printing of books to order
 * distribution of the books to game/hobby stores and book retailers
 * listing/availability on Amazon.com and BN.com

 As for the percentage of sales, bear in mind the following: Distributors receive an average 60% discount on all purchases. That means that for a book that has a suggested retail price (SRP) of $20, distributors pay only 40% or $8.

 From that $8.00 comes the production cost (about $2.75 for a 96-page book), the sales commission for our contract fulfillment house (10% or $.80), shipping costs (about 5% or $.40). Add to that a bit of marketing from us, catalog listing, etc. Our costs just for handling the orinting, distribution and sales of each book is about $4, which is 50% of the net sale to a distributor. So even if we charge 60% of that $8, we're making a less than a dollar on each sale, while the designer gets about $3.

 As you can see, we're not making much profit on that book, are we? So what are we getting out of it? Industry good will, an increased line of available products, and potentially some big hits that we will need to publish through a traditional press (meaning more profits for everyone involved).

 Comments or thoughts are welcomed.

Mike Holmes asked some questions in the other forum and was asked by the admin to repost the questions here. It seems I've beaten him to the punch in reposting so I'll go ahead and post quotes from the original message and my reply.

Quote from: Mike HolmesHi Mark, good to see you here on The Forge,

 Hola and thanks. :)

QuoteYou left out the most important part. Rights. Who retains them, the author, or GRG? Is there a period where only GRG can publish the game?

 Designers keep the rights, including the copyright. GRG is only licensing the publishing rights from the designer. Period.

QuoteWhat about future editions, etc?

 Separate project; not covered under the agreement.

QuoteWhen will the details of the contract be available to see?

 Right now if you like.

 http://www.goldrushgames.com/files/GRGPub&Distr.PDF

 Bear in mind that this is a DRAFT and is not yet finished. We're adding a few additional clauses, such as a deadline for the designer to get the files to us, verbage about when the up-front fee is non-refundable and when it is refundable, etc.

QuoteIs selection completely on a case by case basis, or do you have some criteria you can let us in on?

 The project can't suck, make GRG look bad, or be pornographic. it also must not infringe on any other party's rights (e.g., if it's a D20 product it MUST comply with the OGL and D20STL), and it has to be something we think will move in terms of sales.

QuoteDesigners keep the rights, including the copyright. GRG is only licensing the publishing rights from the designer. Period.

QuoteGold Rush Games wants to buy all rights to written works. This means we'll want to own the characters and situations that you create for your manuscript. If you don't wish to relinquish rights to a specific character, then don't use it in your manuscript. While we appreciate the desires of many authors to maintain ownership of their creations, we want to avoid potential problems in the future regarding rights to material we publish (such as in the case of republishing material).

This is from the Gold Rush website.

Well, which is it?

Quote from: RPunkG

QuoteDesigners keep the rights. GRG is only licensing the publishing rights from the designer. Period.

QuoteGold Rush Games wants to buy all rights to written works. This means we'll want to own the characters and situations that you create for your manuscript. If you don't wish to relinquish rights to a specific character, then don't use it in your manuscript. While we appreciate the desires of many authors to maintain ownership of their creations, we want to avoid potential problems in the future regarding rights to material we publish (such as in the case of republishing material).

This is from the Gold Rush website.
Well, which is it?

 You failed your Deduction roll. ;)

The former statement was made by me right here in this forum about a program I said was still in development and thus not yet finalized.

 The latter quote is from our submission guidelines which have been on our web site for several years (in one version or another).

 Now, in case it's still not clear, under the new program the designers will still retain the rights to their work. We would license the publishing rights only.

 Now, if someone wanted to pitch a project to us for one of our existing lines (or even a new one) that they wanted to write but not lay out, commission art for, etc., then we would indeed expect to buy all the rights to it.

 I hope that's clearer.

Hi Mark,

I'm not doing too well on my deduction either, and I hope it's not coming off as being obtuse. Let me know if I have it right.

1) If I work for Gold Rush Games as a freelancer, then the material's yours, which is standard. This would be if I, oh I dunno, suddenly decided to write gaming material for Usagi Yojimbo based entirely on the information implied by the presence of Jei in the comic.

2) Then there's Golden Pillar, as demonstrated by the publication of Dreamwalker.

3) And then there's the new program which you've outlined here, which is very much more like Image Comics or Sirius Comics, or perhaps like Atlas Games with Unknown Armies, or Hobgoblynn Press with Godlike. (Correct me if I'm misreading.)

Can you explain to me more about the similarities and differences between #2 and #3? Or am I misunderstanding, and they're the same thing? Or ...?

See what I mean about the deduction roll ... I'm really not being deliberately misunderstanding or trying to put you on the spot. If I'm understanding correctly, you'll be providing an important service that will suit the needs of a lot of people who frequent the Forge.

Best,
Ron

Quote from: Ron EdwardsHi Mark,
I'm not doing too well on my deduction either, and I hope it's not coming off as being obtuse. Let me know if I have it right.

 I'll try.

Quote1) If I work for Gold Rush Games as a freelancer, then the material's yours, which is standard.

 If we contract with you under a Work For Hire agreement, then we own the work. We would do this if someone wante dto write for something we already own (such as Sengoku), are already publishing under license (such as Zorro or Usagi)* or are already developing (such as Agent X, or Patriots).

 * In some cases, due to the terms of our license, the licensor would actually receive ownership of the work we commission.

QuoteThis would be if I, oh I dunno, suddenly decided to write gaming material for Usagi Yojimbo based entirely on the information implied by the presence of Jei in the comic.

 I don't understand the latter part of the statement, but if we hire you to write for the UY RPG then it would be a Work for Hire agreement, yes.

Quote2) Then there's Golden Pillar, as demonstrated by the publication of Dreamwalker.

 Separate company and different programs. For details on these prgrams, please visit the web site at http://www.goldenpillarpublishing.com .

Quote3) And then there's the new program which you've outlined here,

 Correct so far. ;)

Quote...which is very much more like Image Comics or Sirius Comics, or perhaps like Atlas Games with Unknown Armies, or Hobgoblynn Press with Godlike. (Correct me if I'm misreading.)

 I'm not familiar with those companies' programs so I can't comment specifically, but based on the context of your comments they sound similar.

QuoteCan you explain to me more about the similarities and differences between #2 and #3? Or am I misunderstanding, and they're the same thing? Or ...?

 First and most import distinction, which might help clear away some of the confusion...

 o  #2 includes Package Deals offered by Golden Pillar Publishing (GPP), which is not the same thing as Gold Rush Games (GRG). #3 is a new program being developed by and will be offered by Gold Rush Games.

 o  GPP does not offer distribution to game/hobby distributors (such as Alliance or Centurian). The GRG program will include the distribution.

 o  GPP packages include design services (cover and interior layouts, etc.). The GRG program will not include design services, although they can be purchased for an extra fee.

 o  BOTH packages will include BIP listing, ISBN, barcode, and availability of the title frm major online sellers such as Amazon.com and BN.com (and I believe Chapters, in Canada).

QuoteSee what I mean about the deduction roll ... I'm really not being deliberately misunderstanding or trying to put you on the spot. If I'm understanding correctly, you'll be providing an important service that will suit the needs of a lot of people who frequent the Forge.

 I sure hope so. That's the aim of the new program.

 Just to reiterate, whether someone chooses the Golden Pillar Publishing design and publishing packages or the new Gold Rush Games third party publishing and distribution package will depend primarily on the target distribution and retail outlets for your product. In other words, is your book intended primarily for game/hobby stores or book stores? If the former, that leans toward the GRG program. If the latter, that leans tword the Golden Pillar Publishing packages.

Hi Mark,

Thanks! Let's see - it strikes me that the single most significant element of the Gold Rush Games option (#2 as I called it) is that GRG will act as an agent regarding getting one's game into distribution with Alliance and other distributors. Is this correct?

H'm! Let's see, I'm wondering if a little variant is possible ... say that I am a new games publisher, and I have a really great game. Let's also say that I have the scratch to pay for printing myself (and would prefer to), but I really want someone else who's industry-savvy to talk to people at Alliance and Centurion and whoever, representing my interests, and I'm willing to pay for that. Is that possible, using Gold Rush Games?

Best,
Ron

Quote from: Ron EdwardsThanks! Let's see - it strikes me that the single most significant element of the Gold Rush Games option (#2 as I called it) is that GRG will act as an agent regarding getting one's game into distribution with Alliance and other distributors. Is this correct?

 Our clients/partners would get access to our distribution channels and fulfillment servces, yes. That's where a good chunk of our royalties from sales go.

QuoteH'm! Let's see, I'm wondering if a little variant is possible ... say that I am a new games publisher, and I have a really great game. Let's also say that I have the scratch to pay for printing myself (and would prefer to), but I really want someone else who's industry-savvy to talk to people at Alliance and Centurion and whoever, representing my interests, and I'm willing to pay for that. Is that possible, using Gold Rush Games?

 It's possible, but it's outside the scope of this program that we're discussing. In that case, you would be looking solely for us to distribute your product for you to distributors. It's possible, but would require a 30% sales commission for us.

 It's possible to create an alternate tier for the agreement, but that's something that's still undecided. Nothing is written intostone jsut yet. ;) But I can tell you that we're not going to warehouse 5,000 copies of a new product without charging the client for that space in the event that the product just doesn't sell.

Best,
Ron[/quote]