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I can do HTML, and so can Ralph. We're not challenged as far as that goes. What is challenging is coming up with something to put on a web page.

For one, any suggestons on art? One of the problems that we're having is that, since Universalis is sans setting, that we're having trouble trying to decide what to use for art. What do you put in a generic game to make it visually appealing yet indicate generic. One school says just go with whatever is most provocative sort of picture that might be indicative of a story unfolding. But might this become too eclectic? Any ideas? This is also a problem with our layout to an extent. (I'm thinking of a smiling toadstool man next to a sentient starship just for Gareth). Any ideas on where to get art? Clinton had good advice in his article about borrowing from friends. We've already checked this avenue, and I don't know that we'll get much that way. Some, maybe.

Second, beyond a description of the game as advertising, what else do you put on the page? We're *not* currently thinking of an ashcan version for free. This is partly because it would be hard to give away anything but the full version of the game and have it make any sense. Are we being too paraniod?

What else am I forgetting? What are people's opinions on technologies like Flash, for example? Include it? Don't? Frames, no frames? Any advice would be appreciated?

Mike

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On 2001-09-26 17:03, Mike Holmes wrote:
What else am I forgetting? What are people's opinions on technologies like Flash, for example? Include it? Don't? Frames, no frames? Any advice would be appreciated?

Flash is an often abused technology. My adivce would be use it if it's appropriate, and if you're confident at designing with it. Bare in mind that a flash movie could detract from your core content (info about your RPG).

Frames went out of fashion due to two things: If not done properly they look appalling and search engines don't always interpret them properly (or ignore then entirely).

Hope that's of use.

Matt

Good points. I think that given what you said, we may skip the frames. Still don't know about other technologies, tho.

Mike

Hey Mike,

It is unfortunate that you have not gotten much response from others on this thread. It is an important topic.

First off, as a gamer, I will say that one of the coolest things you can put on a website is free stuff. Wizards of the Coast is absolute king of this. They are constantly releasing characters, adventures, product updates, new material, articles, and ideas. They also do a good job doing previews of products.

Of course my issue with the Wizards of the Coast site is that it uses ASP and requires Netscape 6.0 or some such. I don't always get pages to load right and they don't always work for slightly older (and sometimes better) browsers.

So, number one is: make your website compatible. To make a good looking appealing website, you don't have to use Flash, tons of PHP, amazing art, or anything. You need to make sure content is organized, accessible, has some overall theme, and sells your game in some way. Using amazing technology might be cool, but it might be incompatible on some computers or hog bandwidth.

Examples:
Atlas Games, http://www.atlas-games.com/
A fairly simple website -- but it is fast to load, easy to find information, and good to look at. Sure, it won't win any awards, but it won't make your eyes bleed or your head ache from trying to figure it out.

Adept Press, http://www.adept-press.com/
Another great example.. This site is VERY simple, but it looks fantastic. Easy to find info...

Bad Examples:
Pinnacle Entertainment, http://www.peginc.com/
Bad example. You can get places on the site, but it just looks unorganized and unkempt. As you get deeper in, you can't be positive if a link will take you exactly where you want to go... The site works, but it needs work.

I could go on but I won't...

Number two, provide content, even if it is a plain html webpage. If a product is coming out soon, give a PDF preview of it. Give examples of the system, the setting... Write a little extra material - a short story, adventure, etc. If you are really good, keep the free material coming in. When the product is official released, try to release a ton of stuff on the website to give people instant ammo.

This is a tough thing to do for some of us... Hey but it is a great way to encourage people to visit your website and check out the game.

Okay, I think I have rambled on enough... anyone else have any reviews of websites?

Thanks,
Nathan
http://www.mysticages.com/">www.mysticages.com

Hey Nathan,

I should have asked you directly as I like the Mysticages pages very much.

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On 2001-10-04 12:00, Nathan wrote:
First off, as a gamer, I will say that one of the coolest things you can put on a website is free stuff. Wizards of the Coast is absolute king of this. They are constantly releasing characters, adventures, product updates, new material, articles, and ideas. They also do a good job doing previews of products.

Hmmm... A good preview is about the only thing that I think that we can do right now. The problem is that since we haven't released the game yet, any free data we give out is likely to be useless. This is especially true because of the nature of the game.

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So, number one is: make your website compatible. To make a good looking appealing website, you don't have to use Flash, tons of PHP, amazing art, or anything. You need to make sure content is organized, accessible, has some overall theme, and sells your game in some way. Using amazing technology might be cool, but it might be incompatible on some computers or hog bandwidth.

Very good advice. Other than keeping it simple, though, how is that best accomplished? Do I have to download a copy of every browser and see it they all work? And what about really weird browsers like Lynx? Are those used too rarely to worry about?

>Snip Examples<

I agree with your assessments of those sites, and I'll try to keep that in mind. Fortunately we have so little that I doubt that over-complexity will be a problem, at least at first.

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Number two, provide content, even if it is a plain html webpage. If a product is coming out soon, give a PDF preview of it. Give examples of the system, the setting... Write a little extra material - a short story, adventure, etc. If you are really good, keep the free material coming in. When the product is official released, try to release a ton of stuff on the website to give people instant ammo.

This is a problem, and possibly why my problem might be impossible to solve. See, anything we publish might give away the mechanics, in which case we have no product. Also, the game has no default setting. I could write a story, but it would likely relate as well to another game as ours. Hmmm... Actually, that does give me an idea. I can write stories from actual game transcripts. Now that might be cool (and nobody would mistake them for being from other games).

Thanks, I now have a direction to go off in.
Mike

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On 2001-10-04 12:26, Mike Holmes wrote:
Hey Nathan,

I should have asked you directly as I like the Mysticages pages very much.

Wow.. You are too kind. :smile:

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Hmmm... A good preview is about the only thing that I think that we can do right now. The problem is that since we haven't released the game yet, any free data we give out is likely to be useless. This is especially true because of the nature of the game.

Okay, sounds like an issue. For example, I have run into this problem with the Wild. It has such a small system, if I give an example of it, I pretty much give the system. So I understand your dilemna. Perhaps what you need to do is begin developing a simple setting to go along with your game. Maybe design a fantasy city, the characters within it, a couple of adventure ideas to use with it. Use your examples off of that... But again, I don't know. Sounds like you need to figure our what your system does that others don't.

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Very good advice. Other than keeping it simple, though, how is that best accomplished? Do I have to download a copy of every browser and see it they all work? And what about really weird browsers like Lynx? Are those used too rarely to worry about?

>Snip Examples<

I agree with your assessments of those sites, and I'll try to keep that in mind. Fortunately we have so little that I doubt that over-complexity will be a problem, at least at first.

Hey, I can be wrong. I don't download a copy of every browser.... I try to make sure I look at it at least in Internet Explorer and Netscape. Then you also have to worry about resolution. For example, I helped reorganize the Dark Omen Games site a little bit - http://www.darkomengames.com - and I guess it has an error in higher resolutions.. the background starts repeating itself. I still need to fix that.

So check 800 x 600 and 1024 x 768, etc...

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This is a problem, and possibly why my problem might be impossible to solve. See, anything we publish might give away the mechanics, in which case we have no product. Also, the game has no default setting. I could write a story, but it would likely relate as well to another game as ours. Hmmm... Actually, that does give me an idea. I can write stories from actual game transcripts. Now that might be cool (and nobody would mistake them for being from other games).

Thanks, I now have a direction to go off in.
Mike

Sounds like though -- you need to get on with designing a product first. It is okay to have a placeholder and little else if you don't have much there. If you want people to come to your site, you have to have something for them to see. If you don't have anything yet, just put a little info about the company and leave it there. The website is not of much importance until you guys feel like you have something to sell...

But yeah, sounds like you got a good idea already....

As for art, which you asked about earlier, there are some clipart places on the web where you can get stuff - barrysclipart.com, arttoday.com, excite.com, etc... You will never find good free stuff, but you might find an image or two which you can modify to have a good look with the site. I'd suggest exploring different fonts to add some feel. (pcfonts.com, macfonts.com)... Good stuff there.

Let me know if you ever need webspace or anything.. I can provide that for free... I too have trouble finding artists. I just got to keep trying.

Thanks,
Nathan Hill
nathanh@cameron.edu

Hey Mike,

I can write stories from actual game transcripts.

Another option would be to create two or three compelling examples of play from those transcripts. Perhaps one would show object creation, and one from a different game would show conflict resolution. Use color-coding intelligently, and a few evocative illustrations, and I think you'd have some content that would sell the game, without actually giving away all the mechanics.

Paul

Hey,

Well, we had problems with artwork too: you can check out our universal game site (address below). As far as interior art: we had to pay for it and it's been quite a trip talking to artists and working it all out--loads of fun.

JAGS runs on a Linux box using the Tomcat JSP/servlet engine and PostgreSQL database (all of that's free). I recommend database driven pages since they're easier to change (we're chaning our page layout soon!)

We've tossed around ideas for "cover art" and haven't been really satisfied with any of the concepts. My advice would be to go with something eye-catching and interesting. People know what a "universal" or "multi-genre" RPG is these days.

Good luck,
-Marco
[JAGS: http://jagsgame.dyndns.org/jags/index.jsp ]

Hey Marco, thanks for the advice. Now I really feel like a heel for what I wrote about The Belltower. Sorry.

FWIW, though, your web site looks incredible.

Mike

Thanks about the website :smile: (our webmaster and designer is quite proud of it--but working on some improvements!)

Don't worry about The Belltower :smile:

Oh, and one more thing: go to the local comic shop--it's like a law of physics that someone there can draw. You may get a kid who draws what he wants to (instead of what you want) but it's worth the look!

Take care,
-Marco

[ This Message was edited by: Marco on 2001-10-05 10:14 ]