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In GNS Model Discussion

9/20/2004 Dave Panchyk: GNS summation: please to shred
Hey all, I regularly contribute to a play-by-mail gaming magazine, and wanted to bring the basic ideas of GNS/The Big Picture to the players and designers who read it. I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Dave Panchyk, Jaik, Ron Edwards, lumpley, timfire, Eric J..

9/15/2004 Erling Rognli: Sorting out front-loading and most likely choice
[quote="Marco, in GNS Sim thread"]However: That technique, the technique of choosing the most-likely choice, can apply just as easily to Narrativist or Gamist play and will be applied successfully with…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Erling Rognli, Marco, ErrathofKosh.

9/15/2004 Marco: Emotional Involvement
I broke this out from the GNS Sim thread since it's something I wanted to look at separately. c) Is the division between Sim and Nar (absent railroading…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, M. J. Young, eef, Walt Freitag, Ron Edwards, contracycle.

9/15/2004 ErrathofKosh: What am I doing?
First off, I'm not sure whether this question should be asked in this forum or over in Actual Play, but as it concerns my understanding of GNS, I put it…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: ErrathofKosh, ffilz, eef, Ron Edwards, Sean.

9/14/2004 Marco: GNS Sim
Looking at the 3D-Model and The Big Model, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not sure what, definitionally, constitutes GNS Sim. Several things have been postulated but I'm not…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, M. J. Young, Ben Lehman, eef, ffilz, contracycle, Caldis, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag.

9/9/2004 Marco: Personal Agenda vs. Social Agenda
In another thread I discussed the case where a player is "playing Gamist" but not getting props from the group. The group is okay with him doing that--but they aren't…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, Ron Edwards, contracycle, Walt Freitag, Mark Woodhouse.

9/9/2004 Roger: Bartle's "Players Who Suit MUDs"
[To everyone, but particularly Discussion Participant Ron.] Looking over the GNS theory, I was reminded of another essay about categorizing different styles of rpg players. After rummaging around a bit,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Roger.

9/4/2004 Caldis: What are we talking about when we say 'Creative Agenda'?
We seem to be having several discussions lately questioning this aspect of the Big Model so it seems time to tighten up the definition in hopes of gettting everyone on…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Caldis, Marco, John Kim, Lee Short, Erling Rognli, Gordon C. Landis, contracycle, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards.

9/3/2004 Mark D. Eddy: CA Kabobs Revisited
An interesting thing about the Big Model is that it doesn’t actually require three Creative Agendas. In fact, given the Big Model’s diagram, there could be as many CA’s as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mark D. Eddy, Valamir, Gordon C. Landis, Ron Edwards, Ben Lehman.

9/3/2004 M. J. Young: Referee/Player Sim/Nar Clash (from What GNS Is About)
As sometimes happens to me, I was asked a question in a thread, and I started to draft my answer, and then discovered that the thread had been closed since…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Marco, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, John Kim.

9/2/2004 M. J. Young: Illusionist Techniques
Over in Jay's Point of Clarification Concerning Illusionism threadNot all illusionist techniques are necessarily "force" in that the invalidate player choices. Some are used precisely to enhance player choice.I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Marco, clehrich, Blankshield, contracycle, bcook1971, Sean, Eric J., Silmenume, ErrathofKosh.

9/1/2004 Marco: Internal cause and Premise
Someone got back to me on my techniques article with some questions. Rather than listing them here, I'm going to distill them and discuss them here. It was pointed out,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, Walt Freitag, Ron Edwards, Erling Rognli, ErrathofKosh, Ben Lehman, M. J. Young, John Kim, Gordon C. Landis, contracycle.

8/31/2004 Ron Edwards: RULES FOR THIS FORUM: IN FORCE SEPT 1 2004
New rules for the GNS forum Hello, As of October 1, a new forum will begin at the Forge called "Introduction to the Big Model," or something like that. This…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Alan, clehrich, GreatWolf, Mark D. Eddy, Emily Care, Clinton R. Nixon, Marco, timfire, Asrogoth, bcook1971, Christopher Kubasik, Artanis, Paganini.

8/31/2004 Marco: Techniques, Expectations, and Interactions
Ron wrote, P.S. Whoops, editing this in, Marco - your example sounds Narrativist to me. But it's kinda sketchy in your summary, so maybe I'm projecting into it to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, Ron Edwards.

8/31/2004 Silmenume: Point of clarification regarding Illusionism
Point of clarification regarding Illusionism (a style of play with Covert Force) - I had read in the last couple of days that when Illusionism was in Force that the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Marco, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young, lumpley.

8/28/2004 komradebob: Making Big Model kabobs.
I've been reading these other recent threads that suggest we might approach creative agendas as skewers going through the big model, and that many, may creative agendas beyond Gamist-Narrativist-Simulationist may…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: komradebob, Ben Lehman, clehrich, M. J. Young, Rob Carriere, Ron Edwards, Valamir.

8/28/2004 Silmenume: Fudging rumination -
This is mostly an open rumination but - As Fudging as it has commonly employed refers to Fortune mechanics - is there any milage to be had viewing fudging as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Jaik, Sean, Alan, Ron Edwards.

8/28/2004 Alan: What is Dramatism?
I recall Marco somewhere saying it was play with creating story structure as the primary goal. (However, I can't find the quote.) In Narrativism: Not a Creative Agenda... Marco said…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Alan, Marco, Caldis, John Kim.

8/28/2004 Ron Edwards: This forum is being reviewed
I have decided that this forum needs a house-cleaning. My own recent post is angry, frustrated, and completely devoid of any expectation that it will be understood. That is a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards.

8/28/2004 Ron Edwards: Force
I'm gonna say it once more. 1. Force is when one person exercises controlling influence over another person's character's decisions, when those decisions are central to whatever CA is going…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Ben Lehman, greyorm.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

9/28/2004 M. J. Young: Splitting Simulationism?
For a while lately I've been bothered by what I perceive as a widening rift in the definition of simulationism. In my mind, I had come to identify simulationist play…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: M. J. Young, Ben Lehman, C. Edwards, Mark D. Eddy, Marco, Jinx, Ron Edwards, Sean, timfire, Silmenume, clehrich.

9/29/2004 bcook1971: Groping Forward
After reading Splitting Simulationism and Subtyping Sim, I experienced a return to understanding regarding layering of the Big Model. (i.e. Actual play reflects settings on the panel of agenda; often,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: bcook1971, Ron Edwards.

9/29/2004 Wormwood: Big Model as a Scientific Theory
Note: this is not a critique of accuracy. Rather it is an attempt to point out places where the structure and formalisms of the Big Model Theory cause difficulty in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Wormwood, clehrich, Jere, Ron Edwards, Sean, ErrathofKosh, timfire.

10/4/2004 Marco: transparent vs. mechanical
In the post on diceless Sim, Ron says: 1. Marco, quick clarifier: I do not suggest that either The Window or Theatrix is any sort of Sim exemplar in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Marco, Ron Edwards, clehrich, Valamir.

10/13/2004 John Kim: Mechanics as Symbol Sets (was Sim-Diceless thread search)
OK, so I'd like to start a thread about mechanics as symbol sets, this continued from my discussion with contracycle toward the end of Sim-Diceless thread search. Important reading…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, clehrich, contracycle, Sean, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag.

10/16/2004 Silmenume: Musings on mechanics and The Dream
I wasn't quite sure where this fit in the whole mechanics threads scheme of things, so rather than botch someone else's efforts - I put this here. If Drama as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silmenume, Paganini, clehrich, C. Edwards, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag.

10/17/2004 Roger: The Basis for Criticism
(split from Musings on mechanics and The Dream) Again and again, people object that what I'm describing can't be what they do because the essay text doesn't feel like…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Roger, clehrich, John Kim, contracycle, Ron Edwards, Marco, jdagna.

10/18/2004 Sean: Validation of Input in Sim
Marco asked about this in another thread. Marco, what did you think of Chris Kubasik's post here: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=12964&start=42 that seemed to me to be one fine example, if not of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Sean, Marco, John Kim, contracycle, Ron Edwards.

10/19/2004 Technocrat13: What does the Right to Dream require? (split)
In The Basis for Criticism Ron wrote: Story Now requires Premise, which is to say an imaginary situation which throws a real-world problematic issue up for judgmental grabs. Step On…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Technocrat13, Ron Edwards, Walt Freitag, John Kim, contracycle, Silmenume, Valamir, Marco.

10/19/2004 Walt Freitag: "Sim: Realizing the Ideal"? (split)
This is split from this thread in which Ron and Eric (Technocrat13) discuss "the thing Simulationism needs," the way Gamist needs Challenge and Narrativism needs Story Now. Where Eric chose…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Walt Freitag, Technocrat13.

10/19/2004 apparition13: Re: Big Model as a Scientific Theory
[quote="Wormwood"] 4) The theory does not propose any experimental tests, and due to above points removes nearly any power that such tests could have, by enforcing a subjective basis for…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: apparition13, Ron Edwards, Wormwood, clehrich, lumpley, M. J. Young, TonyLB, Lxndr.

10/20/2004 John Kim: Classifying By Social Function
OK, so I've been thinking about Ron's "celebration" definition for GNS Simulationism and Chris' analogy about anthropology in The Basis for Criticism. So here's my suggestion. It may…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, contracycle, Alan, Ron Edwards, Marco, ffilz, clehrich, WhiteRat, Landon Darkwood, pete_darby, Wormwood, Mike Holmes, Gelasma, Victor Gijsbers.

10/25/2004 karnov: preferences
first of all sorry for my grama nad spelling ..i got more ocasions for read in english then actualy write so ..... second. this forum and gns theory is for…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: karnov, M. J. Young, Ron Edwards.

10/25/2004 Grover: (unnecessary?) Narratavist-Simulationist clashes
I recently got Sex and Sorcery, and I was reading through it, when one of the examples struck me in an odd way, and so I thought I would talk…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Grover, inky, Marco, Ron Edwards.

10/26/2004 Walt Freitag: Literary Comedy, Answered Premise, and Narrativism
Brought to a thread from private messages initiated by Tim Alexander: Hiya Walt, I was looking through the archives and in the midst of following a few threads I ended…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Walt Freitag, Ben Lehman, contracycle, pete_darby, Ron Edwards, Tim Alexander, Victor Gijsbers, GaryTP.

10/26/2004 Wormwood: Play as Social Function
This is a split from Classifying By Social Function and is related to some discussions I started a while ago, Technical Play and the one word GNS. John asked me…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Wormwood, contracycle.

10/31/2004 greyorm: Typhoid Mary in Action?
Over in Frustrations with 3E, Callan said: For example, recently I pitched a very low key problematic situation to a player so he could address the premise (A guy with…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, Victor Gijsbers, Ron Edwards, sirogit, Noon.

11/8/2004 RobNJ: New World of Darkness, GNS analysis?
Has anyone reviewed the new World of Darkness games from a GNS perspective? I'd be curious to see what the opinion was.
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: RobNJ, Trevis Martin, Marco, sirogit, pfischer, Christopher Kubasik, Alan, Valamir, Eero Tuovinen, Erling Rognli, John Kim.

11/9/2004 John Kim: Moral Articulation and GNS
OK, this is split from Classifying by Social Function, as I thought this is an interesting topic -- but not really a part of generally classifying by social…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Kim, pete_darby, clehrich, Alan, Blankshield.

11/22/2004 timfire: Binary Narrativism (relates to CRPG's)
[url=http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?p=143314#143314]Somewhere else[/url], Mike Holmes said this: [quote="Mike Holmes"]If, on the other hand, you want to go with a real narrativism based [[i]computer[/i]] design, then we're talking about getting into an…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: timfire, Matt Wilson, Mike Holmes, Adam Dray, Noon, Walt Freitag, contracycle, clehrich, epweissengruber, M. J. Young, Selene Tan.

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